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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

DS got detention (a bit long winded)

28 replies

Wailywailywaily · 30/11/2011 20:45

I have been pondering this for a week and the more I think about it the more I think I need to speak with the form teacher.

I got an email last Friday telling me that DS who is 11yo, has got detention for inciting other boys to fight. I was shocked, this does not sound like him at all but I can just imagine that if there was a group he could get caught up with the crowed and shout along with all the others.

So I started my talk with him with the 'I'm so disappointed in you' routine and he burst into tears (not uncommon, he is emotional) and explained his side of the story.

His side of the story is that as he was coming in from his lunch break there was a large group of children (more than 20) in the hallway so he had to squeeze around the edge. He became aware that there was a small group making a lot of noise and shouting things like 'take him!' and 'knock him down', DS was curious and so hung on for a few moments to see what was going on and waved at a friend with the back of his hand(??).

If this was the end of the story and everyone there got detention I would not really be concerned, its a strict school and they need to come down hard on boys fighting but... DS was called to the form teacher because another boy said that he was involved, he was not asked to give his story and he was shouted at and intimidated and put on detention. As far as he knows he and only one other boy (and DS says that this boy was actually involved) are on detention. DS never had an opportunity to defend himself from the accusation of another pupil (who does not seem to be on detention but was there).

Am I being unreasonable to call the form teacher and ask for clarification on this as it seems to me to be grossly unfair. IMO, from DS's side of the story, at least 20 boys should be on detention. I am aware that waving with the back of the hand is odd and I have now explained to DS the multitude of rude gestures that this could be interpreted as but he was genuinely shocked when I explained quite how rude (wanking, V sign and the finger). I don't want to get him off detention as such but I do want to know what the form teacher knows that I don't and why no other boys have received a detention for this incident.

OP posts:

Crabapple99 · 30/11/2011 20:52

Thousands of rioters across the country have been giving the courts similar stories.......

by all means talk to the teacher.

But more importantly emphasise to your son the importance of keeping well away from incidents likethis. Today it was an incident in school, leading to a detention. In a few years time it could be an incident at the busstop, leading to gang fight/stabbing/ breach of the peace/ arrest/ criminal record.

The natural thing is to want to tke a peek at whatever is causing the disturbacnce, but an audiance only makes the disturbance worse, and the ausiance themselves are likely to get drawn into the trouble, or its aftermath. Fair doesn't really come into it, in circumstances like this. He was there, he shouldn't have been. He, like most boys his age, needs to learn not to be!

Viewofthehills · 30/11/2011 20:55

Yes I definitely would speak to the form teacher. Is he in year 7?
My son has just started high school and i think they are deliberately hard on them in order to impress discipline from the start which is reasonable, but not when they don't get a chance to put their side.

TheFallenMadonna · 30/11/2011 20:59

Ask for more details. If they really thought he had been instrumental in starting a fight he'd have more than a detention. If there were 20 boys involved, it's quite unlikely he was the only one who got a detention. Parents often check that I'm not picking on their children and letting others get away with it. I never am.

Moominsarescary · 30/11/2011 21:04

So loads of kids there but only your son and another child are having to do detentions? I'd be inclined to speak to the teacher to find out what realy happened.

Even if he's telling the truth I'd make him do the detention. If this had happened out of school the police can and do arrest them for just being spectators

sillybillies · 30/11/2011 21:05

Crabapple gives v good advice. They need to learn to stay away and wise up a little.
The teacher will probably be happy to discuss it especially if you're not ringing to get him out of detention. Sometimes incidents like this are difficult to deal with fairly as its difficult to determine for sure who is guilty (and the ones who stir it up at the start are generally the hardest to catch).

Original poster

Wailywailywaily · 30/11/2011 21:10

Yes he is year 7. He is quite immature but growing up fast! I have no problem with them coming down hard on him (and all the other kids who were there) I just feel that he should have been given a chance to give his side of the story and that all in attendance should have detention.

I feel that making children feel resentful about injustice is not the basis of good, firm discipline. By all means come down hard and be indiscriminate in that discipline. But to single out a couple of kids for punishment on the say so of other kids? That is not how justice worked for the London rioters.

I think he has learned his lesson to keep away from rowdy groups, I just hope it doesn't engender a feeling of resentment over the injustice of it (never a good lesson IMO).

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cardibach · 30/11/2011 21:11

I agree with TheFallenMadonna . Check up to put your mind at rest - I'm sure there is more to it, and perhaps your son is not aware.
With regard to the waving with the back of his hand - that seems odd to me. If he regarded it as just a wave, why mention it was the back of his hand? How would that even work? I'm not suggesting he was any more involved with the fight than he says, but it sounds like he knows he made a gesture he shouldn't have and is coming up with a defence.

WorraLiberty · 30/11/2011 21:14

I'd have a word with the teacher and find out

However I have to say I've never met an 11yr old who doesn't know making a V sign is rude.

Original poster

Wailywailywaily · 30/11/2011 21:20

Oh he knows its rude it just hadn't occurred to him that that is the way his gesture could be interpreted

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Original poster

Wailywailywaily · 30/11/2011 21:22

I'm not sure why he waved like that, I have seen him do it occasionally but never mentioned it was odd to him before. I don't think he will do it again.
I think he mentioned it because it was pointed to as an incriminating act by the teacher.

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Moominsarescary · 30/11/2011 21:23

Maybe it was seen to be encouraging others to come and watch, back of the hand wave sounds more like a come here gesture

Original poster

Wailywailywaily · 30/11/2011 21:24

so you don't think the teacher will mind if I ask for some clarification? As he is my eldest I really don't want to get a reputation as a difficult parent.

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TheFallenMadonna · 30/11/2011 21:24

I'm trying to imagine waving with the back of the hand, and all I can think is that your son is spinning a little, or he has delusions of royalty

Original poster

Wailywailywaily · 30/11/2011 21:33

Well Madonna, I think it could be a little of both

He is not an angel above the odd white lie but he is genuinely a gentle soul and I really don't believe he was a ringleader in any of this. He was there, he did hang around for longer than he should have and he is being punished. He is unlikely to make the same mistake.

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Ihavewelliesbutitssunny · 30/11/2011 21:46

Yes go speak to the teacher as long as you are calm and reasonable you will not get a reputation. Use it as an opportunity to discuss your son's progress generally at the school and be positive about this if possible so you're not just going in guns blazing. Is the form teacher a different teacher to the one who dealt with the incident? If so she/he may have a different point of view and will want to support your son if they feel he has been treated unfairly (while of course not undermining the other teacher which can be tricky).

IloveJudgeJudy · 30/11/2011 21:54

I think you should leave it, tbh. He should have known not to hang around anywhere near a fight. It's a sharp learning curve, but one that has to be gone through. You can't worry about what punishment other pupils got, just what your son got. He shouldn't be watching a fight at all. He certainly won't be doing that again. This is from DS1 (17) who has had more detentions than he's had hot dinners. He always knew that he shouldn't have ever stopped and watched a fight. You can't question it now, anyway. It's more than a week ago. Just chalk it up to experience.

catwalker · 30/11/2011 22:41

My son got lunchtime detentions for a week for something similar when he was in year 7 or 8. He was also very indignant and upset because he'd been on the edge of a group and, according to him, not been actively involved. I hope it taught him an invaluable lesson - if you see something going on, walk away so nobody can mistake you for one of those involved.

PomBearAtTheGatesOfDoom · 30/11/2011 23:14

It is a shame that, if it happened as your DS said, he has been unfairly punished more than the other boys, but he was there, he was waving "oddly" and he was "grassed up". He needs to learn from this, even if it's just that when the shit hits the fan, those who move slowest get covered in it. If you wade in and start "harassing" the teacher you will be that mother and your DS will be the boy with that mother and he will be marked for his entire school career. They will hold it against him. It might not ever matter (and one would hope it wouldn't) but...but... then again it might. It's not worth it. Let him do the detention "take one for the team" and bask in the kudos this gives him with the "hard boys", then keep his head down for the rest of the term and it will all be forgotten in the new year. Plus think how embarrassed he would be if word got out that his mum phoned the teacher. He will never live it down. Bweing "Mummy's boy" is far worse than a detention.

TheFallenMadonna · 30/11/2011 23:19

Parents phone in about things like this all the time. How would the other students know about it? I wouldn't fret about that particularly.

If you want more answers, phone. If you're happy with your son's sanction (and his is the only one you should be worrying about really), then don't. I'm happy to explain any sanction I give to parents. In fact, in this instance I'd probably have phoned you.

minimisschief · 30/11/2011 23:25

lol waving with the back of his hand..aka calling someone a wanker

tigerlillyd02 · 30/11/2011 23:25

I always think to leave schools to it. Always watch out for bullying from staff and pupils and act upon it if neccessary. Otherwise, leave them be. It's more important schools and parents are united on discipline.

I think having the attitude "my mum won't mind" or "mum will get me out of this" has more damaging effects than a (maybe) uncalled for detention.

Moominsarescary · 30/11/2011 23:45

I still think the waving with the back of the hand sounds like gesturing to others to come over and watch and this is probably how the teacher took the gesture

Original poster

Wailywailywaily · 01/12/2011 13:12

When I spoke to DS he was quite upset at the idea of me calling in, though DH said I should go in to the school in person.
His detention is this afternoon and from what you have said he has got off quite lightly with only one. I will chat to DS again later and see how he is feeling about it, but I will not call in just yet.
Moomins I think you are right that it is the gesture that was the problem, wish I knew why he did it?

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Flisspaps · 01/12/2011 13:15

I have to say, I agree with Pom and ILoveJudgeJudy.

Leave it - ultimately, your son shouldn't have been standing there watching the fight. It is only a detention, it's not a criminal conviction and hopefully DS will learn that if he sees a fight in future to walk away and not spectate.

Moominsarescary · 01/12/2011 17:42

Teenagers do things without thinking, it doesn't seem like he was fighting or that he was anyway the cause of it.

Maybe he was beckoning people over, maybe he wasn't, I have a teenage boy who is nearly 17 now but at that age he did some realy daft things without thinking. I'm sure your son knows now just to keep away if trouble is brewing

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