to think these people were selfish and rude.

[cakeoclock]

The push chair v wheelchair on a bus just reminded me what happened this weekend.

I was christmas shopping with friends (one in a wheelchair) in Harvey Nicks Leeds and it was pretty busy. We stood waiting for the lift, the doors opened and it was rammed full of people (no push chairs). Not one of the miserable gits got out to make space for the wheelchair just looked away until the doors shut and we had to wait ages for another lift. There were escalators less than a minute walk from the lift.

AIBU to think that this is lazy, selfish and awful and to hope if any of you are reading you feel ashamed.

My friends little boy has severe CP, do people just not realise who difficult life can be for some and is often that way for the rest of that persons life.

No, you don't have to do anything to help anyone ever. No ones saying you do. But don't you want to ?
It gives me enormous pleasure to do small random acts of kindness. Why not treat yourself occasionally to feeling nice about yourself?

I actually can't bear to read this entire thread - I gave up after the post about people "whinging on" about equal opportunities.

But in my view the argument about lift priority for wheelchair-users is exactly the same as for buses. If everyone refuses to act with consideration and vacate a space for a wheelchair user then that person could sit there as lift after lift goes by. There is no way of knowing whether there is only one lift-load of selfish people shopping that day, or whether there are 20 lift-loads of them. A wheelchair user can't say "oh bugger it" and pick up their wheelchair and get on the escalator - the rest of us can. If people choose not to then that is up to them and their conscience but it is a bit much to try to argue that they have some sort of moral right to make that choice.

And what Post said.

I would feel crap about myself all day if I didn't do what I knew to be the right thing to do in a situation like this.

I am gobsmacked by this thread and some of the attitudes. With so many obstacles to be overcome in everyday life I can't imagine not getting out of a lift for a wcu. I just can't. Yes they are just as.able to wait, but they have no choice but to wait. I have a choice, called stairs or escalators.

Of course wheelchair users should get priority in that situation. Though in the defence of others, they may not always be aware of disabilities, esp where they are not as obvious as a wheelchair.

In my case, when I was 8 months pregnant with my pfb, I was coming back from a New Year's party. The tube was rammed, no-one gave up their seat, so my OH asked the only bloke in a tube carriage full of women if he'd mind giving up his seat for me. The bloke said 'sure' and indicated his crutches which neither of us had spotted. We were v v embarrassed. Nice guy actually shuftied up so I could squeeze in next to him. (Needless to say, all the women sitting down all looked the other way, started doing their make-up etc. )

Obviously, we would never have asked this guy to give up his seat if we'd known he was on crutches - but didn't spot it. Equally, though, I daresay lots of people didn't spot I was v v pregnant, and disabilities - if not wheelchairs - aren't always as obvious to other people as they are to the disabled person themselves.

The fact is nobody knows anybody elses circumstances. Some people spend a lot of time and energy guessing and judging and they know nothing. They should take responsibility for themselves, their own person, and leave others to do the same. Many people would leave a lift - or not use it in the first place - but they're entitled to just the same. I don't think lifts were built for access, they've been around for many years, long before the 'disability act' focused attention.

DancingMustard... I think you're a very gracious advocate for disability rights.

Lunatic- Would you feel embarrassed if it was a parent with a pram waiting to get on? Is it the waiting aspect that you can't get your head around?

Oh breadandbutterfly to have been one of the (standing) passengers when your DH made such a twat of himself :o

I do love threads like these to aid the spreadsheets of "Total Twats of the Talkboard"

If you are fully able-bodied and can quite happily stand in a lift and watch the doors opening and closing on someone who can't use anything other than the lift and who may have been there for some time, fair play to you. Bet your mama's proud.

Exquisitechristmascake

I am being presumptuous in answering for lunaticfrunge who may have their own response. But for my part I can't get my head around the fact that an able bodied, fit, non pregnant nor disabled person would stand in a lift, watch the doors open and see a person sitting in a wheelchair and think 'well they can wait'

I know a few people who are wheelchair users but not terribly well but with my slightly limited imagination I ponder the fact that at some point in their life they had to realise that they can no longer move around without help. That their lives are affected by that. That everything they do, from the moment they get up, is harder for them than me.
That they may only be there because of the available assistance of another person to help them. That this may be a rare outing, or important.
Or they may be uncomfortable, they may need to leave now or be in pain and want to get home. And that just getting home will be harder for them than me. That this day out may not be possible for much longer. That no being able to chose to take the stairs or the escalator may be frustrating, that waiting for someone to see all this and let them on is a bit humiliating.

Why anyone lacks the imagination or the simple compassion to think of any of that shocks the hell out of me.

With a pram I would probably still want to offer them space but I would be aware that this is a short term problem and the pram pusher probably won't be pushing a pram forever.

Well said pag. Also the frankly astounding (and depressing) number of ppl who are ablebodied on this thread, who are happily saying 'they can wait' shows that the invisible disability is not the reason that ppl are not getting off.

I honestly don't understand....why was it more important for your friend to use the lift faster than everyone else? Why not wait for the next? You and yor friend weren't really made uncomfortable by the litte wait were you?

BECAUSE THE NEXT ONE MIGHT BE FULL AS WELL. AND THE NEXT. WHILE THE PERSON IN A WHEELCHAIR IS WAITING FOR THEIR ONLY OPTION, YOU COULD HAVE WALKED UP AND DOWN THE STAIRS SEVERAL TIMES.

I'm shouting as this has been said eleven thousand times on the thread. And is freely available to you anyway by the application of common sense.

Any more inane questions?

I will never find out whether or not I would have gotten out for a weelchair user as I would not have been in the lift in the first place. Nothing wrong with my legs so would always use escalator or stairs, wouldn't occur to me to use the lifts. And if I'm with my older children and no buggy I always say to them that lifts are for people who can't walk, so I suppose I have always assumed they are not really for able-bodied people but haven't consciously thought about it. I suppose I do find it lazy for people to use the lifts if they can use the stairs. Should actually be mentioned on that 'obesity in UK' thread. With attitudes like that, no wonder!

I use lifts myself with a push chair but I only go shopping on quiet days so have never encountered any problems, but suspect I would probably get quite annoyed if I suspect lots of able-bodied people are using the lifts and leaving me waiting. On weekend days we try to avoid shopping and otherwise my DH is with me and we have taken buggy up escalators and lifted it up the stairs loads of times.

To try claim that you are a better person than others because you don't use lifts is silly. Pride in the fact that you carried your child up the stairs in a buggy is certainly mis-placed. Lifts were not invented for disabled people. They were invented for convenience for everyone. Why do you think shops have escalators? Its not just for customers benefit, it so that more people are tempted upstairs, because after a long day shopping, with heavy bags you might not otherwise be bothered and therefore spend less. Same goes for lifts, they are not provided from the goodness of the shopkeepers hearts.

Just shows that some people just don't THINK full stop, or CARE it seems. Have you really no imagination that all the lifts might be full, that some folk have no choice. Do some folk still get a childlike thrill by using a lift, TBH I prefer to use the stairs and do everything at my own pace, right away. I can't be arsed waiting and faffing about with lifts.

I use lifts if doing multiple floor trips in department stoors or carparks for example. I have no problem doing so.

But that is because I am confident enough in my own moral code to get my arse out of the lift if someone else needs the space.

Quite fatcat. I shall bear all that you said there in mind, if I ever find myself having a lazy day and using the lift while it's busy, and the doors should open to a wheelchair user who can't get in. Fuck them. Lifts were not invented for disabled people. They can take a running jump and GTF.
Except they can't. Oops.

Umm not sure if that was aimed at me onefatcat about being proud of taking the stairs with a buggy. I'm not, it is just what we do when the lifts are busy, because we hate queueing and waiting whilst there is an alternative option.

I think its more that we are better people because we aren't selfish twats who are more bothered about our own rights than helping others in tiny and easy ways.

Think I'll pose this lift or stairs dilemma whenever I meet someone new. Would save time getting to know someone and working out if you actually want to get to know them.

Mumbling, we sat and waited for nearly half an hour to get out of John Lewis once. We needed to get down to the car park, every lift was full. Are you seriously telling me that was reasonable? Those able bodied people waiting with us all lasted a couple of minutes before heading for the stairs. My mother was in tears by the time a lift appeared, she was exhausted and fed up and wondering if we would ever get to the car. There was no other solution for us, have you (and the others) any comprehension of the helplessness? I was practically in tears, I was so angry and sorry for her.

But hey, apparently that is perfectly reasonable, let her wait hey.