To doubt my decisions (and dh's) after spending a brief amount of time with parents I don't even know

[lecce]

A couple of things have happened over the last few days that have made me feel like I am out of step with other parents we mix with. Dh thinks I'm being ridiculous and is annoyed with me so I thought I would see what others think as I know I do have a tendency towards paranoia and over-thinking things .

On Tuesday, I took ds (4yo) to a drama class he attends in a community centre. We got there slightly early and there was one other boy in his class there. We wait in a large room which is not used for any other purpose at the time we are there, in fact, no other events are taking place in the whole centre while we are there so there is no one around except other 3-5 yos and their carers. Anyway, my ds and the other boy started running around tpgether, playing chase. The other mother sharply called her child over, told him to stop running and started making him practise writing his name. It would never occur to me to do this in that setting - writing and reading are activities we only do when ds is in the mood and shows an interest. Since he started reception, this is pretty much every night. Before then, he had very little interest in any of it and we didn't push it. I got the impression when he started reception that he was a little behind the majority of the class with his knowledge of letters/phonics etc (didn't go to pre-school either) but he has now caught up and is doing very well.

Then today I took ds2 (2yo) to a toddler gymnastic session and there were 4 children of a similar age to him - one was certainly younger - matching up numbers. They seemed to all know their numbers. It has never occured to me to show ds any numbers, in fact I was very proud last week that he has started to count (properly - actually counting objects). What I saw today just made me think we should be making more of an effort to do formal teaching with our dc.

I don't know what I'm asking really, it just seems that other people seem to have things sorted out so much more than us. I tried pretty hard to get ds to learn stuff before he started school (I know that sounds grim, I mean in a fun way ) but I have never been able to get him to be interested in doing stuff if he's not, but other people seem to have workbooks out all the time and just seem so much more organised and on the ball.

Dh thinks i'm being ridiculous but how much structure and learning should pre-schoolers be having?

i don´t do anything with ds (4) - we read lots of stories and if he initiates spelling words/ writing etc we do that with him. I wouldn´t even think about doing any more with him at the moment I think he is doing absolutely fine as he is.

I don't think it has to be structured at that age, does it? I used to build on what they were interested in, so they'd count how many dolls or crayons etc and they'd spell out letters in street names, that sort of thing. I think the quickest way to kill an interest off is to sit them down and say they're going to do it until they know it.

At 4yo home time should be relaxing/fun time. He has enough time when he is school to do his numbers and writing.

You sound like a really fun mum and the other mum sounds very pushy

My four year old knew lots of letters and his numbers before starting the foundation stages, but he has a sibling four years his senior who is convinced she's a teacher so the poor sod had no chance!:o

If your son is doing well enough in school, go with his flow and enjoy it. Trying to cram can cause more problems than it achieves in some children:)

I agree with your DH. Enjoy yourself and enjoy your child, you sound lovely.

YABU - childhood is precious.

Don't forget, children in the UK start formal learning years before kids in many other countries and those children seem to do ok. Chill, he'll be fine.

chill, let your kids play, theya re 4 & 2. I'm amazed at Drama & gymnastics for a 4 & 2 yr old so you are way ahead of me

Stop worrying... a lot of parents are doing it in front of you just to try and make themselves look like the perfect parents... when all they are doing most of the time is making themselves look ridiculously precious.

true, carabos; I've got 7 year olds who come to my class from outside the UK (from countries with perfectly good education systems) and they can't write, read or add. They catch up eventually.

I'm in two minds about this.

Yes, childhood is for playing. However, there is plenty of time for playing and learning. I think it is a mistake to think that school is for learning, home is for playing. We parents need to teach our children too.

Perhaps 4 is too young for 'structured' learning at home but education is not just about school and homework. My opinion before anyone thinks I am declaring a rule for all.

Nothing you've said suggests you're doing anything really weird, my 4 year old adores running around playing chase, if I got a workbook out in that setting he'd struggle to focus on it.

It sounds like you're in tune with your kids, the fact that you take them to interesting activities suggests you pick up on what they like doing and encourage that so don't fret. I'm sure you're doing fine!

Similarly the other parent/s may have their reasons, maybe the mum of the toddler was picking up on something their kid likes doing, the other 4 year old might have more "homework" than your son gets from reception and perhaps the mum thought she'd get it out of the way whilst they were killing time.

DS1 knew his numbers and letters by sight and could write by 4, but it never occurred to me to make him do it in a public place just for the hell of it. He also learnt them because he watched and imitated. He saw me writing lists etc and wanted to write; he saw numbers and letters on TV and in various books and magazines and became fascinated by them. When I knew he was interested, I gave him the tools in the form of appropriate books and toys to explore more. There was no formal teaching involved.

Sounds like the mother making her boy write his name was into a bit of competetive parenting trying to prove how much of a genius she's raised to anyone who cared to take notice.

Eh? they were running round and she called him over to do reading? She's over-anxious or showing off to you in some way. Trust your instincts

In your first situation then the parent forcing them to write the name was odd imo!

As for the numbers thing DS has been counting to 10 since he was about 14 months but only by rote. He is just 2 now and can actually count objects up to about 15.

DS loves "writing" his name (he spells it out and I write it or he squiggles) and counting and other such things but I would never force it. I do tend to incorperate numbers into day to day play though.

I know what you mean, my ds has just turned 4 so not at school yet and is completely not interested in any "formal" learning. he can count and knows the letter that his name starts with and thats it.

A couple of his friends go to football club and drama group at the weekend, ds doesn't even do this! he has nursery 3 days a week (8-6) so i thought this was enough? ds would rather be running about like a loon tbh, or destroying fixing things, or messing about with mud. he'll get a shock when he goes to school next year!

I think it's fair enough that the other mum wanted to stop her boy running around - maybe all she had with her to distract him from getting over excited was a pen and paper and she was thinking quick.

As a lot of children do attend pre schools/nurseries they will be getting shown numbers and phonics etc - but as you say your DS is catching up now he's at school, so there's no need to worry about not being the first to write your name/know your numbers.

Thank you everyone for the replies and support!

Yama I agree but I suppose we'd always gone with the view that playing IS learning at this age. What I have seen the last couple of days made me doubt that a bit as it seems so many other people are doing things differently from us. However, I know ds did learn a lot before starting school - just not letters/reading. His teacher told us that his knowledge and understanding of the world is excellent (not-even-slightly-stealthly boast ) so I know we haven't failed him entirely though she may have been making us feel better after seeing the other children's writing but it's just that over the last week or so I've seen so much going on that I've thought, "I should be doing that." Thing is, though, even if I should, there's just no way I could force either of my 2 to sit and do things they just don't want to do.

The little boy who wasn't allowed to play chase looked ever so crushed...

ds1 recognised all his numbers written down when he was 2. The only reason for this was that he was interested in them so we helped him learn them. ds2 was not at all interested and was past his 3rd birthday and in nursery before he learnt any.

It sounds like you have a lot of pushy parents where you are. Also my bf is a teacher and says that it doesn't help these children get ahead, they all level out anyway.

lecce - if you are worried about writing, a much better bet than getting him to write against his will is to make shapes, numbers and letters in sand, shaving foam or glitter on a tray

Being able to write/talk/recite Shakespeare at the age of 4 isn't an indication of future genius. My 11 year old didn't say a single word until she was 3 and didn't read or write anything until she started school and she's now gifted and talented for English and in top sets for everything. And I did zero to push her.

.. sorry, with his finger

I think we as parents sometimes forget that writing is a motor skill, not a sign of intelligence. Precocious writing tends to impress people unduly, but writing difficulty seriously affects childrens' self-esteem, IMO. I'd advise not pushing it, but when they do start mark-making (with their finger, or a stick, or a cotton-bud, or a brush) to concentrate on correct letter-formation. And when they start to hold a pencil to start off with the correct pencil grip, because that's hard to correct later on.