To doubt my decisions (and dh's) after spending a brief amount of time with parents I don't even know

[lecce]

A couple of things have happened over the last few days that have made me feel like I am out of step with other parents we mix with. Dh thinks I'm being ridiculous and is annoyed with me so I thought I would see what others think as I know I do have a tendency towards paranoia and over-thinking things .

On Tuesday, I took ds (4yo) to a drama class he attends in a community centre. We got there slightly early and there was one other boy in his class there. We wait in a large room which is not used for any other purpose at the time we are there, in fact, no other events are taking place in the whole centre while we are there so there is no one around except other 3-5 yos and their carers. Anyway, my ds and the other boy started running around tpgether, playing chase. The other mother sharply called her child over, told him to stop running and started making him practise writing his name. It would never occur to me to do this in that setting - writing and reading are activities we only do when ds is in the mood and shows an interest. Since he started reception, this is pretty much every night. Before then, he had very little interest in any of it and we didn't push it. I got the impression when he started reception that he was a little behind the majority of the class with his knowledge of letters/phonics etc (didn't go to pre-school either) but he has now caught up and is doing very well.

Then today I took ds2 (2yo) to a toddler gymnastic session and there were 4 children of a similar age to him - one was certainly younger - matching up numbers. They seemed to all know their numbers. It has never occured to me to show ds any numbers, in fact I was very proud last week that he has started to count (properly - actually counting objects). What I saw today just made me think we should be making more of an effort to do formal teaching with our dc.

I don't know what I'm asking really, it just seems that other people seem to have things sorted out so much more than us. I tried pretty hard to get ds to learn stuff before he started school (I know that sounds grim, I mean in a fun way ) but I have never been able to get him to be interested in doing stuff if he's not, but other people seem to have workbooks out all the time and just seem so much more organised and on the ball.

Dh thinks i'm being ridiculous but how much structure and learning should pre-schoolers be having?

The first mum was being weird IMO.

Generally though, I'm in two minds over 'teaching' before school. DS is in reception and I just followed his interests and we did virtually no letter work before he started (we did do number work as he wanted to). I didn't do any reading or writing with him because people on here said that was best. He is flying at school and holding his own with the early readers already. BUT he loves learning, listening and is an older one in the year.

My DD is a young one in the year and going to start reception next September. I think I will prepare her differently and start on some basic principles because her attention span is not as long, she is still quite babyish and not as bookish. I am worried that kids get pigeon holed as bright or not early on and I don't want her to be labelled as slow forever if she has a slow start. She can already dress herself, is toilet trained, use knife and fork, has good balance and ball skills but I want to make sure she can write her name, understand that words are made up of sounds, recognise a small number of words, be able to draw a face, name shapes, count reliably to 100 and add and minus 1. I will be crafty about making it fun.

Maybe it will back fire but we all try and do what's best for our own kids.

My 5 yo could count to 100 at 2, and read at 4-but it was only because he wanted to. He kept asking me about numbers and letters constantly.
I don't believe in pushing them to learn anything like this pre-school, and did not actually want him to be reading before he started school.
All I ever did was read him a story every night, and he kind of did the rest on his own, me just answering questions when asked. (Not stealth boasting, he is unusual, in fact possibly asd).
If he is not interested in something it is literally impossible to make him learn it, so I don't ever try.

You did the right thing, you followed your ds's cues.
All kids are different, and all do things in their own time. At 4 there is so much to learn, emotionally as well as academically. Don't ever compare yourself to other parents. Your child is unique, stop stressing!

I had exactly the same worries about DS 3.6. Despite being in nursery full time (I work FT but that is a massive gripe that I won't go into on here!) and doing lots of learning activities at nursery I was paranoid that as a parent I was letting DS down by not making every single activity we did together a learning exercise of some sort. However a couple of weeks ago it suddenly struck me that I didn't need to be doing this. He is only little - his life lessons at this age should be fun and my role as a parent should be to ensure his character and morals are set in good foundations. It was a massive revelation but it made me realise that one of the best gifts I can give him is to have a fantastic childhood without projecting on to him all the anxieties, pressures and expectations we have as adults. He has plenty of time to learn the academics. As a country our children start so much earlier than many other children. I want DS to grow up with all the fun and innocence of early childhood as well as learning all the skills that will instil in him the thirst for knowledge.

OP you sound a lovely caring parent to your DC. Carry on in that way and you won't go wrong with them. I've had a massive rethink over the past few weeks and realised that putting too much stress on myself and DS. The reality is that I'm doing a darn good job of raising DS and I would bet that you are too OP from the fact that you are even worrying about this.

i think you sound just fine and the other mum that stopped her son running around and got him to practise writing his name is a bit odd! seriously BIG EMPTY ROOM, of course they are going to want to run around and play chase!! i take my ds4 to a toddler group each week and as far as he is concerned the best bit is at the end when all the toys are put away and the huge room is empty and him and his little friends run up and down like mad things!! he is 3 and he does know numbers and letters, partly i think due to the tv and also as he has four older brothers. he is interested in them and i do counting etc with him and answer questions he is always asking what signs say and what letters words begin with but i dont do anythign structured, he is 3!!

well said thegruffalo.

gruffalo- ironically I fret that mine won't keep up with the nursery kids who have done lots of educational activities where as my kids have done lots of rolling around of the floor at home. Which just goes to show that whatever you do, you still worry about it.

The little boy who wasn't allowed to play chase looked ever so crushed...

And that, right there, is the reason YABVVVU. :) children need to be children, not learning robots! I bet if the boy's teacher is halfway decent she would feel sad for him too and would rather he spent that time running about making friends.

Lecce I agree with you. We never made our eldest pracrise writing before she started school either but we do recite times tables in car journeys, play Eye Spy, rhyming games, 'sounds like' games etc.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we, as parents, can encourage a love of learning. You sound like you are doing that.

Also to those of you with DCs in nursery, don't worry about getting them to Learn Stuff before they start reception. Every year on MN there are threads on this, and teachers without fail reply that they aren't bothered about new pupils knowing letters and numbers! They will learn all that stuff anyway, so unless they are desperate to do it, no hurry. What they want is a child who can:
Be friendly and share
Use the loo
Get dressed/do shoes and coat
Follow basic instructions
...and maybe recognise and write their name, IF they are ready.

Seriously, chill. :)

And which child is going to have the most enjoyable, enriching childhood? It's not the one forced to sit in front of books during playtime.

there is no difference between playing and learning - they are the same thing. playing and academic learning are a bit different.

if that was my kid in the centre i would have just let her run around. fgs making a kid sit down and do school stuff - why?

i think 4 is too young to push academic work.

Imo, Social Skills are far more inportant as this age than academic ones.

At this age and younger they will be learning their boundaries with certain situations, learning to share, co operate with others, asking when they need help,learning manners, the difference between right and wrong, how to be a good friend and polite person etc.

If your child shows an interest and is particularly keen to learn something, by all means encourage, encourage, encourage.

Comparing your own child to others is something many mums never stop doing as it's your instinct for your child to be the best as he / she can be.

If, when your child starts structered learning, the teacher will tell you if there is anything to be concerned about, or anything he needs more help or practice with.

Try and relax and don't measure yourself and your child up to other people, they are not important. Childhood is for fun and for being a child.

important, not inportant! bloody hell, I am educated!

Pink, funnily enough I now guage DS's day at nursery by how filthy he comes home rather than worrying about how much he has learnt so to speak. We are all as parents going to beat ourselves with some sort of stick because of the choices we have to make. I don't now view nursery as a academic learning establishment but as a place that will take care of DS and somewhere he can be the little boy he is.

I am fairly confident that DS is capable of learning but I don't want to force it on him when it isn't necessary. I want to prepare DS for school by being a happy, confident little boy who wants to learn, can make friends with
his peers, make the most of his abilities whilst, at the risk of sounding very Enid Blyton, be considered to be a very good egg. If I can achieve a fraction of that I won't be doing too badly!

I also meant to say that I don't want to take away from
the joy I have in learning about DS's personality either rather than focussing on what milestones we are expected to achieve. I am trying to learn to rely on my instincts on what is the right way for us to learn at the moment rather than trying to comply or surpass the expected. Why take the joy out of watching the pure unadulterated happiness of our children just belting round an empty hall or whatever it that they love as long as we can give them guidance and set boundaries.

Sorry, am in a very philosophical mood tonight!

You sound like a lovley caring Mum. In my opinion all this early academicstiff is all ver ywell, but by far the most important thing you can do for your childrens progress is simply to keep talking to them. If they are able to listen, respond, articulate their thoughts and feelings, and have a a good vocabulary, they are streets ahead of a child that can recite all the times tables, and write the sequal to Lord of the rings. Spend time in conversation with them, as you clearly are doing, that is the best possible preparation for school

The first example sounds like a fine case of performance parenting.

At this age, children learn through play. It's really good to do things like counting songs with toddlers (one, two, three, four, five, once I caught a fish alive, for example), read them lots of stories and encourage them to do simple jigsaws, as that helps them develop the fine motor skills they need for writing. You don't have to do any formal teaching. The key to learning anything at any age is motivation, so if you read lots of stories, then that encourages an enjoyment of stories and a desire to read them for yourself. Nursery rhymes are another excellent way of developing language skills and also help when it comes to reading. Making them sit down and learn numbers from one to ten is a surefire way of killing off enjoyment in learning.

Are you in London OP, or elsewhere?

I did nothing at home, ever, with any of mine, beyond reading the books which were sent home from school though I did strongly encourage CBeebies (for my sake rather than theirs). None of them are wildly behind their peers academically, it can kill learning if everything gets turned into a lesson.

Trust your instincts as someone else said.

Oops, just seen hackmum already made the point about killing pleasure in learning.

I hate this pushy crap. It is a waste of time and ridiculous. Just let kids be kids, they have years and years of formal teaching ahead of them. I personally believe they develop better when encouraged to play imaginatively and come to learning when they are interested. My db couldn't read or write at 6, he is now one of the leading researchers at one of the top universities in the world.

I don't know who these women were but they sound ghastly. Please don't let them influence you. I never ever did stuff like that and my kids are now doing great at school.

I am telling you that kids who are pushed to learn their letters and numbers still end up at the same place as those who werenot by the time they are 6 - 7, which incidentally is when other countries begin formal teaching.