to be infuriated by how the press discuss Lily Allen?

[ThisTimeNextWeek]

I can't help but feel angry, hurt and frustrated about the way the media talks about Lily Allen and her losses. I was pissed off last year when they reported on her 'second miscarriage'. They've have just compounded their insensitivity by reporting on how she has given birth to her 'first child'. No! It's not her first child! She's lost two children before! Just because they died, it doesn't mean they no longer count! I can't remember the details of her first loss but her second was at 6 months (absolutely not a miscarriage).
AM I too close to the issue to look at this objectively? I Dora little inside when anyone refers to my daughter as my 'first' or 'only' child. How must Lily be feeling?
Am I being unreasonable?

YABU... What is she to you? Why are you even interested in a total stranger's fertility? We're in the middle of a big inquiry about press intrusion. Just don't read the stories or buy the magazines and newspapers if you disapprove of the reporting style.

Ah, blinking heck! Is there no way to edit that for typos? That'll teach me not to proofread before sending. That should say "I die a little inside", not 'dora'. I'm sure you can handle the other typos - fat fingers.

Well I think you are splitting hairs a little. Its the press, hey are not going to call this successful birth her 'third' are they? That would assume she had given birth twice already, which she has not. I'm sure she doesnt disregard the babies she lost.

I think actually the press left her alone through out this pregnancy which was unusually sensitive of them

It annoys me when they say she had a mc. She was six months pregnant, she gave birth to a little boy, it wasn't a miscarriage.

I don't buy magazines or watch tv; I've just heard it on the radio, between songs. I live under a rock and am not keeping up to date on this big press inquiry. Does everything else fall off the face of the planet because of a press inquiry?
I'm not interested in a stranger's fertility issues. This affects me because it demonstrates how insensitive people can be about in-pregnancy loss and that affects me whenever someone makes a comment to me about my own circumstance.

And have you met these 'insensitive people' personally? Have they been deliberately insensitive towards you? The world is full of people with insensitive attitudes towards all kinds of things... body-shape, disability, mental illness, bereavement... you name it, you can find a poorly written article or a bad taste joke on the subject. But as long as the people with whom you interact directly are not insulting you with those attitudes, why is it an issue?

She did indeed give birth to her second child. He was stillborn. I guess I worry that this sort of thing sets the tone for how 'real people' talk to others about their losses. It's dreadful to have your lost child disregarded by others ad whether you realise it or not, something as simple as describing a stillborn child as a miscarriage or a second child as a first because the first died, is disregarding the lost child.

Yes, Cogito, I have been on the receiving end of these insensitive comments. I don't see how that might change anything, though. Do you propose we just sit back and allow this to happen, to such vulnerable people? I haven't proposed that we 'do anything about it' like shutting the newspapers down or whatever. ButI'm struggling to understand why you think it is unreasonable to strive and expect more sensitivity, accurate reporting and general understanding.

TBH, I'm probably at risk of being flamed here, but an early MC (which I think Lily Allen had with her first pregnancy, I'm not completely sure as obviously I don't know her) isn't often counted by people as a baby. It doesn't make MC any easier, of course - it's one of the hardest things I've ever been through.

I have two children, I miscarried my first pregnancy at 10 weeks but DD1 is my first baby. I have dealt with it a little differently though as I see DD1 as the baby I was meant to have the first time around but got lost and came back to me, if that makes sense. That's what helped me deal with my miscarriage but I guess I wouldn't feel that way if I'd had a later miscarriage or stillbirth.

WanderingSheep, like I said, I don't recall at what gestation she lost her first and I do think her first loss was a miscarriage (at about 16 weeks, I think) but her second was definitely stillborn. This thread has already demonstrated the lack of knowledge and understanding about it, with one commented declaring that it's not as if she gave birth to any of them. She did, she gave birth to the her little boy before this baby girl.

it sounds terrible, so i am sorry in advance for upsetting anyone, but probably, technically, it is correct to say that this is LA's first child. afaik stillbirth babies do not get a legal status of being "born", so legally they did not exist, because they have never "lived". again, i am sorry for any upset this may create, just wondering the legalities

not to say that the pain the parents and the family go through it any less. i have also been there and it is unbearable

my warmest congrats to the Allen family on the safe arrival of their baby!!

I don't get why the press call a still birth a mc, they said the same with Amanda Holden, they both had mc and then later had still births.

I hope like Lilly, Amanda has a happy outcome.

Congrats Lily!
Well I've had 2 miscarriages, one at 20 weeks where I literally did 'give birth', but I consider my DD my first, one and only child. I would never say I've had 2 children or whatever, so not everyone feels the same.

Its a very tricky issue and people often dont know how to get round these things or what words/phrases in the event people like OP get hung up on a misuse of a word.

YABU in the nicest possible way.

Bemybebe, babies who are stillborn after 24 weeks gestation are acknowledged legally. They are registered (just like a live birth would be) and the parents are given a certificate of stillbirth.

I know less than nothing about Lily Allen, but, OP, I agree about the insensitivity of the terms used in the coverage. On the other hand, I'd consider myself an educated and reasonably sensitive individual, and I didn't know until I got pregnant for the first time (am 23 weeks now) where the cut-off point between a miscarriage and a stillbirth was, so I think there's fairly widespread ignorance on the subject and the correct terms, even among women.

And while I've supported friends who've lost babies pre-term at various stages, I have genuinely never fully grasped until now precisely how heart-breaking it would be to lose a baby you'd been carrying. My own baby isn't even considered 'viable' outside the womb yet, and I've only seen it on scans and been feeling it kick for about a week, but I've invested so much thought and time and love and preparation in it already that there's no doubt in my mind about the very real grief I would feel if anything bad happened.

Sympathy for the losses of people on this thread.

When a baby is stillborn after the 24th week of pregnancy, then a birth and death certificate are issues. Prior to the 24th week a baby is considered to have been miscarried and a birth and death certificate are only issued if the baby took a breath (or more).

this thank you for clarifying!

I think there is a difference between an early miscarriage and a stillbirth.

With the greatest of respect, an early miscarriage is not a child. The pregnancy was not viable; many, many women have early miscarriages (I think it's one in six pregnancies that end before twelve weeks?), to suggest that any subsequent children of a woman who has had an early mc should be referred to as their second/third/add in the numbers depending on the number of miscarriages, child is ludicress. As sad as miscarriage is for anyone who has to go through it, many people just don't think as an early miscarriage as a baby, because at the time it was lost it never had the capasity to be a baby.

I do agree that there should be more sensitivity if a woman has had a stillbirth, but that is entirely different.