to start an (albeit slightly different to usual) disabled toilets thread?

[RomanKindle]

Can anyone use the baby change in the disabled toilet or is it for people with disabilities to change their children?
I've always just thought it was for anyone but have recently noticed that the tables are low and am now wondering whether that is to make it easier if you use a wheelchair.
I have no disabilties so wouldn't dream of using the disabled toilet myself but is it OK to change a baby in there?

Ooh, the loos at the Trafford Centre are lovely.

I did use the disabled at the Royal Botanic Gardens in Edinburgh once- there were only three cubicles, M, F and accessible, and a huge queue so people were going in whichever came free next. I've felt guilty about ever since though, even though I don't think there was anybody disabled behind me and people would have gone at me if I'd refused to go in.

Can I join the cage?

When dd was tiny in a pram I certainly used the disabled loos. I really have no idea wha else I was supposed to do? Leave her unsupervised outside the cubicle (I considered this but was worried someone might snatch her)? Bring her in with me and lie her on a dirty loo floor and risk having the pram / shopping bags stolen? Go with the cubicle door open to a load of strangers? Or safely and easily wheel her into the empty disabled loo, and be out again in 2 minutes?

I will be doing the same thing when dd2 is born. And I won't feel guilty.

When dd was tiny I used to take her in the ladies in her pushchair and park her outside the cubicle with the door open a crack to keep an eye on her.

Agree with signet2012. Of course if a disabled person is waiting I will cross my legs and smile a bit longer. This morning I wanted to get back to the consultation asap.

On the apologise profusely point - as an able-bodied person you presumably have checked the non-disabled toilets and are aware that the only baby change facility is in the disabled loo. The disabled person waiting outside for you to finish changing your baby hasn't done that, as they have no reason to go into the other toilets. Therefore yes, while it isn't your fault that the disabled toilet is also the changing toilet, I don't think a smile and a quick apology / explanation is particularly onerous.

I work for an institution which is partially open to the public. All but three of our loos (which are in the private areas) are marked as accessible, unisex and contain baby changing facilities. All visitors and most staff are expected to use an accessible loo. It certainly has some advantages, although it has some really severe disadvantages too (means we have substantially fewer loos as each one is double size).

The interesting thing is that the architect is a wheelchair user himself.

Have to say, the design doesn't support my occasional slight disability in the least, but there we are...

Alot of places have the baby change in the disabled because the non disabled toilets dont have any space for it in m experience. I have sometimes used them for changing but often they need a ley and its too much faff so i use a mat on my lap in the toilet for a young baby or stand an older baby up - having said that my children have freakishly easy nappies to change compared to the swamps i have found in other children i have looked after! (thinks self lucky).

when I was v pg with DD2 I shamelessly used the disabled loo. DD1 was no longer in a buggy, but couldn't be trusted to roam free in the ladies, and getting huge me + bags + DD1 into a normal cubicle was a nightmare, esp as it was always her peeing, then me peeing and the manouveres were just impossible!

I'll get in the cage.

I just dont see why I should apologise for a decision made by the people who put changing tables in with disabled access. I think unexpected orange is right they probably intend for these toilets to double as family bathrooms. So while I would let anyone with a greater need take priority I am not going to apologise. Apologies suggests I am in the wrong and I am not.

disabled loo's are ok to use for baby changing or if you have a pram IMO the reason for seperate loo's for disabled people is not so they can have priority on peeing it's so they can get a wheel chair in and/or use the the hand rails. As long as there is a reason for you being in there and not just i couldn't be arsed waiting in the Q i don't see the issue.

That cage is gonna need an extension soon. I've used disabled toilets on many occasions, to change a nappy, to accomodate buggy while I've had a wee, and when there is a queue and the disabled one is the next one free. Don't see the problem at all and really can't understand why people see it as such a bug deal, it takes two minutes to have a wee.

In my local Debenhams they have a double cubicle with a adult size toilet and a toddler size toilet next to each other and room for a buggy too.

I agree with Signet 2012 and Kiki22. Disabled toilets are built to a spec so that they are suitable for use by disabled people. This does not mean that they can't be used by other people if they need to, eg to use baby change or if need to take a pushchair in. I know this is not a popular view on MN but I think it is correct in terms of what the law requiring disabled toilets was trying to do. So in a lot of places which only have one toilet (like cafes) they will have a single disabled toilet which everyone uses. That seems sensible to me.

i view the disabled toilets as toilets that are accessible for those with disabilities, but imo that doesn't mean that able people can use them as well. A toilet is a toilet. Obviously, as a disabled person i expect some priority over someone who is not disabled but personally i dont have a problem with able bodied people, especially mothers with babies. Also dont get the apologising thing for mothers using them to change babies? If there is a baby changing unit in them, then that is there function, would i be expected to apologise if i came out and there was a mother waiting to change her baby? Course not x

I don't LOOK disabled - but I still USE the disabled loos. I get tuts and huffs from people in wheelchairs who have been kept waiting. I get very fed up with that. There is a GOOD reason WHY I use the disabled loos - and it has nothing to do with my dc.

I have uncontrolled epilepsy. If I have a seizure in a cubicle in the ladies loos, I need access to a 'help' buzzer, and in the ladies, 9 times out of 10, the cubicle door opens inwards, allowing no access for paramedics. I have been stuck in that situation once before, and I was advised by the paramedics that I should use the disabled loos, as it would make their job so much easier if it happened again. I was injured more by the paramedics trying to remove me from the cubicle in the ladies than I had been by my seizure.

So, to all the tutting wheelchair users out there - there are other, non-visible disabilities that may mean someone who appears able-bodied may have to use the disabled toilets.

Not only that, HuntyCat - a person of any bodily condition and of either gender who is unable to get to a loo for a prolonged period may be in very serious pain by the time they reach the sanctuary of the department store or the station or wherever. In such a case when the men's loos were closed for cleaning I have asked a passing woman to see if there was anyone in the ladies' and then stand guard outside while I took a weight off my mind. I certainly would not hesitate to do use the disabled loo in that case - and if when I came out a disabled person was waiting I would ignore the tutting. As you say - s/he cannot even know whether I am disabled or not.

Damn it, cannot we all show each other a little elementary consideration?

Well, this has turned out differently to usual. Hoorah, we can all use the disabled loo. Mumsnet says so.

Any proper disabled fule kno, they're accessible toilets, not disabled toilets. I tut at people in wheelchairs who haven't taken the time to inform themselves about the social model of disability. Well, no, I don't really. But I tend not to go to many places that only have changing facilites in the disabled toilets, and when I have there's never been anyone with a wheelchair waiting to tut at me either (what with wheelchair users only being 5% of the population of disabled people as a whole, this is not very surprising).

I guess I should queue for the cage too.

I'm still only 24w but the public toilets in our town have such tiny cubicles that I already cannot get far enough in to be able to close the door -the designers left around 6" clearance between the sweep of the door, and the toilet bowl, and not much space down the sides. Therefore I use the disabled one. It's that or leave the door open and flash at everyone.

How big is the cage? Is there a disabled access?

I was under the impression that they were accessible toilets, not disabled toilets - ie. they were for people who needed the space/handles and couldn't squeeze into a normal cubicle because of chair, walking sticks, or whatever else.

As such, I actually feel that it's just the place a parent and buggy (or pregnant woman) should be going because they do have those needs.

I'm definitely seeing a trend towards making all toilets accessible (or even unisex) in newer places though, which I think is good for everyone.

I will get in the cage

I've used them after changing the baby, most cafes and even a pub in our area only have disabled toilets

It's about equality. Suppose there are 10 toilets of which 1 is accessible. Everyone uses all of them and the disabled person has to wait there turn just like everyone else. Seems fair and equal, but it isn't. When the disabled person gets to the front of the queue they can't take the next available one like everyone else, they have to wait for the 1 accessible one. People behind them get to go ahead of them. When it is busy they will always have to wait longer than a non-disabled person. That is not equality.

And that's not taking into account the fact that they may be less able to queue than everyone else.

A kitten dies every time you use a disabled loo.