to say this to all the teachers who are striking next week

[Memoo]

As a parent I am 100 % behind you.

I really appreciate that you put your life and soul into your job and im sorry more people don't get just how hard you work for the benefit of our children.

Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Underpaid and undervalued throughout your public sector career and then have the promised pension taken?

I'm right behind them. My superannuation pension is definitely not gold plated, it's based on final salary. Most public sector workers aren't ever going to get the 40 years that would give half their salary as pension.

Half of bugger all is????

The unions are after a better deal, not a scrapping of any plans to change.

Given that the majority of teachers are women, how on earth can you implement any change which doesn't "penalise women"????

It wasn't this government who created this financial mess . It isn't an agenda for privatisation. It is a need to pay off debt.
If you had a wage of 2k per month you wouldn't continue to spend 3k per month, you would have to cut back, much as you wouldn't want to and much as it would be unfair on your kids who now expect x,y,z hobby, clothes etc they would have to go! Why would the countrys finances be any different?

Tax and NI is set for everyone at their appropriate band, that would be a logistical nightmare and unfair . But "higher rates into their pensions" is agreat idea.

Niceguy, the proposed changes will unfairly penalise women as their time off for maternity, raising children, part time or full time, will be factored into the final calculation. But theme the breaks huh, lets roll over and say thank you. Anxious, time will tell wont it. I guarantee they will privatise and then blame the last government.

Them the breaks.... Bloody iPhone.

YES 100% behind them

Hear, hear

Both my boys are off next week so we will go do something lovely!

Go teachers

"Given that the majority of teachers are women, how on earth can you implement any change which doesn't "penalise women"????"

You're kidding, right?

I believe font snob was implying that under new proposed changes men are not affected quite as much as women. Therefore it penalises women.

niceguy

where are the figures to back these facts up?
where is the actual proposal that the government is going to put in place?

they at the moment do not exist because our glorious leaders have not produced them.

would you agree to a proposal that hasn't even been tabled?

Britain also loses up to £120 billion a year through tax dodging and uncollected tax - it isn't public sector workers that are guilty of causing the financial problems, if the government really wants everyone to pay then they should sort tax dodging out first.

£120 billion ANNUALLY that is a lot of money and would surely help the country and pensions.

Which do you refer Boney? The deficit figures or the proposed pension changes being discussed?

As I understand it, negotiations are ongoing with the government but teacher's don't like what's being proposed. Understandably so because no matter what happens, the inevitable fact is you will have to pay more and get less back. There's no avoiding this.

All I'm arguing is that people should look at the bigger picture and ask themselves why. And that if they think they deserve the old pension which is unaffordable, who should pay for it? Are they happy that our kids should pay more taxes to fund their pension?

TapselteerieO. Where do you get that figure from?

According to the HMRC figures, the total was £35 billion in 2009-2010 source

And that includes tax avoidance which is perfectly legal. It's a bit like me buying a CD from Jersey because I avoid paying VAT. Or putting a bit more into my pension to avoid paying income tax. Am I being immoral in doing those things?

"As I understand it, negotiations are ongoing with the government but teacher's don't like what's being proposed."

That's the point in negotiating. Surely. Finding something that very one agrees to, backed up with hard facts and figures that are avaliable for all to see.

£35 billion, that's okay then.

The existing public sector pensions contribute a few billion a year to the treasury, so the changes aren't motivated by short term need, let alone the recession etc. The teacher's pension scheme was recently evaluated by the government in depth and found to be sustainable, which again challenges the "need for change".

The Tories just want to attack public sector pay and benefits as they would rather it was all private sector. This would reduce collective bargaining power and make the ordinary man more shaft-able, including private sector employees who would not have that benchmark to compete with.

The pensions are a big disincentive for any private provider to offer currently public sector services. It's the single biggest obstacle to contracting out the whole NHS to private providers.

Since Gordon Brown started the process of dismantling British pension schemes in the late 90s, with the abolition of ACT, they've eroded the benefit incredibly quickly. The state retirement age rises relentlessly.

Some of this may be inevitable, but the government proposals are dishonest. The introduction of the average earnings, combined with an inflator of CPI are designed to systematically erode the value of pensions. It also provides future governments with a tempting fiddle factor to shaft existing employees.

So I for one am right behind them. We're far too compliant in this country compared to Europe, which I blame on a combination of the legacy of WWII and the Protestant work ethic that's driving us all to insanely hard work for relatively little reward.

Exactly cloudspotter. Good post, far more eloquent than I've managed.

FontSnob, the issue is striking whilst you are still "negotiating".

And the £35 billion figure, even if you could magically collect every single penny still doesn't even come close to plugging the deficit. That's the kind of shit we're in. Raising taxes on bankers? That old chestnut? Assuming we can do that without the big ones like HSBC, Barclays leaving we'd what, raise a couple of billion? Again it's nowhere near enough.

Like I keep saying, the issue is that the government sums are massively screwed. Not just a little bit. A LOT. So now sacred cows which successive government's have ducked can no longer be avoided.

It's like if you earned £3000 but spent £4000 per month. You funded the rest by taking out a loan each year. Except now you can't borrow anymore and you have to look at how you reduce your spending. How are you going to cut back without affecting the standard of living you got used to? A standard you only had because you borrowed and borrowed?

niceguy2
"teacher's don't like what's being proposed."

its not just the teachers

as for discussing the deficit or pension proposals

both can be done in this thread.

and it can't be right to rob peter to pay paul.

I live in Ireland and work in the public sector, this happened to us about 18 months ago, except it was worse! My mandatory pension contribution was doubled, went from 250 euro to almost 500 euro a month. Also changed from average earnings to final salary a few years before then. Our pay was also cut by in my case 7% in addition to this. It is nice to see support for public sector workers here as we were demonised in the press here, it was terrible, public workers pitted against private. We were considered to be quintets because our jobs were secure where as in the private sector they weren't. There was simply no money in the pot and we suffered. Good luck next week!

Quintets! That should say whingers!

Cause the government aren't providing reasonable solutions that are honest and transparent, and won't until we stand up to them. Hence the strike.