To appeal against my DD's Grade 3 piano result???

[Sticklebug]

Please tell me if IABU and just being a precious mum or should look to appeal (not even sure if I can).

My DD had her grade 3 piano exam a couple of weeks back. Her piano teacher predicted an easy distinction for her (134 and 138 in 2 mock exams - her teacher is also an examiner) and my DS's teacher who has heard her play agreed she should get a distinction. I could hear her playing in the exam from the waiting area and although I am completely unmusical it sounded exactly as it had at home and she made no mistakes.

She went in confident and came out beaming with the view that it had gone well. She knew that she had made a minor mistake in her B piece and she had to start one of her scales again, but apart from that she believed that she had done well. She got a merit in her grade 2 (4 points off a distinction but failed sight reading) and a distinction in her grade 1 and she felt that it went as well as her grade 1.

I have just received her results online (which, unfortunately I let her read with me as we had every confidence they would be good) and she has scrapped a pass with a score of 105. She cannot believe it - she tried so hard and played so well and her confidence is knocked completely. Her friend got exactly this score in her grade 2, but she knew she messed up completely and had to restart one piece twice and did not complete another.

She is so confused and now says that she wants to retake it but would be so nervous as she thought she had done so well.

She has always been so confident in exams that I do not want this to affect her.

We have not had the details yet as they come in the post a little later. Her teacher is 'gobsmacked' and will ring me tomorrow to discuss.

Is there any right of appeal?
Am I just feeling so awful because I hate to see my quiet, confident little girl so destroyed? Or should I look to take this further for her?

I agree with lots of gettingalifenows post, but the last paragraph does concern me a little.

Especially at the moment, when all you have is the scores, its hard to say whether the examiner was being unduly harsh or very fair. The teacher should know how to mark - but we don't know how long they've been an examiner for.

I guess I'm cautious as I've seen a group of University students go out and compete in a subjectively marked sport. They often didn't do as well as they'd like - and every single time the coach wrote it off as "bad judging". The coach never gave any constructive criticism. The team were full of individuals who were incredibly arrogant and bursting with confidence, but they never improved to achieve as much as they should have as they had no-one prepared to tell them that maybe they didn't win because other people were better - and these are the areas where you're letting yourselves down.

I think you need to keep up with the "you passed - that's fantastic" approach and wait and see what the comments say. Its possible that the examiner's approach was the problem, but until you know more (and even once you do) I'd be very cautious of using that as a way to comfort your DD over not scoring higher.

I teach music - I would say, don't retake, go onward and upward.

I failed the last exam I took on piano (grade 5) in the same week as I got a distinction in my flute (same grade.) I have a degree in music now, and make music for a living.

I hate seeing kids go through the grades like automatons. Exams mean fuck all, not really. Breadth of playing will do her far more good.

I would go music shopping. And have the radio on All The Time - Classic FM, plus other genres - loads and loads of listening. Get the grade 4 books, but also get loads of others.

She passed, celebrate that.

This is very interesting because the exact same thing happened to a friend of mine recently. Daughter is genuinely musical, passed grades 1-3 in piano (and also her other two instruments) with distinction, expected a distinction for grade 4 and got a low pass.

I don't know about appealing, but I do think it's worth letting the examining board know. Maybe this particular examiner is a bit flaky, but the ABRSM won't know unless enough people complain. I don't think it's worth retaking the exam - just put it down to experience, and get ready for the next one. Your daughter is obviously very talented, so she will be fine. Think of it as an early lesson in "life isn't always fair".

I haven't read the whole thread, but I would definitely not appeal myself but just help DD to move on to the next grade knowing her music teacher and you feel she should have done better. Maybe say "Life's not always fair"
It's still a pass at the end of the day, and "only" a grade 3 piano exam. I mean, especially if she goes on to the next grades there's no reason it would make any difference to her future. My DS is taking his grade 1 trumpet soon, then his teacher plans for him to skip grade 2 and go on to grade 3 as he's made such a good start with it. There's a good book called "don't sweat the small stuff" and you have to think what are the best lessons your DD can learn from this experience. I'd say they would be to know when to move on, to be able to be happy with a pass, and that life can be a bit unpredictable and even unfair at times.
HTH
Roll on Grade IV !

Sounds to me as though your daughter's teacher is Alesha Dixon and the examiner was Craig Revel Horwod!

Sonorus

As q vicarious veteran of many music exams, I do think that different examiners are looking for different things. But the disparity between the teacher and the examiners marks would worry me. As would the "defiinate distinction" comment. Bonkers thing to say to a child IMHO. Are yo appy with the teacher in other ways?

Sticklebug - it's really tough and I sympathise. Even if she did her pieces well all examiners look for slightly different things, there is an element of subjectivity.

I came out of my Grade 5 piano exam thinking it went really well and was expecting a distinction....I also scraped through with 103. And I've taken singing exams as an adult sometimes with very tough examiners! It's just the way it goes sometimes.

Keep telling your dd that she PASSED and that's the main thing. Maybe she'll have a slightly more generous examiner next time.

Sticklebug I really feel for you especially as my 9y DD is doing grade 3 piano and my 6 y DS is doing his piano prep test today.

My experience from 3 children doing music exams is that you never know each time how you will be marked. My eldest DD so far has got a merit in grade 1, a pass in grade 2, a distinction in grade 3 and a pass in grade 4! Everytime she is well prepared, but the only mark she trully deserved in my opinion was the pass in grade 4 as she was very nervous and stumbled on all the scales. The other 3 times she either got higher or lower than she deserved (in my opinion).

I agree with other posters, congratulate your DD on passing the exam it is a great achievement and look forward to the next step. I would also tell her that each examiner is different and just because this particular one did not give her high marks that definitely does not mean that she is not a good pianist. She sounds like a fabulous little musician to me!

Just found out that the 2 others that my DDs teacher put in on same day failed - one is her son who was doing grade 4 and has had distinctions (included a full marks!!) at all previous exams! With the 2 others I have heard about it does seem that it is a particularly hard examiner.

My DD's teacher and the teacher of the other 2 are going to raise it with the ABRSM to suggest that they review the marking of this particular examiner.

Have discussed with teacher and she suggested that my DD retake, but have decided that this is not an option I want to consider so will leave the exams for a while and she can learn some nice Christmas music and then we will see what she feels like in the new year.

No, don't bother retaking. It's just a case of picking over old bones and she'll end up hating her set pieces. Concentrate on Christmas music and put it behind you both. Just put it down to the examiner being ultra critical and leave it to the ABRSM.

I hope he's not up our way next week

hiddenhome - we are in Surrey. The examiner was a lady, who funnily enough my DD thought was 'lovely' and smiley!!

Hmm, like The Smiling Assassin eh? We're in Durham, so we might be safe Your dd has done well to get to Grade 3 by the age of 9. ds1 is 13 and he's just doing Grade 2 viola.

For me the most important sentence in your posting is this: "She says she wants to retake it". How great is that? It is simply fantastic, and that is what you should be both be celebrating. Of course she will be nervous, we are all nervous before exams! Wanting to take it again shows courage and persevance - qualities that will stand her in good stead for the rest of her life. I say well done to your daughter!

It's great- but she shouldn't donut. She's passed- move on. It's soul destroying doing the practice pieces once - never mind twice.

I would read the comments very very carefully then decide whether q different teacher is the way to go.

Do it. She should definitely donut!

To pick up getting a lifenow.

The good thing about LAMDA Speech and drama exams is that each candidate is given their mark sheet before the exam then they hand it to the examiner when they enter the room and the examiner fills everything in before the next candidate so no room for mixing sheets up.

Definately wait for the comments sheet again in LAMDA you can;t look it up before you get the whole lot together - and see if there are discrepancies.

Oh, I dont hink I've ever been quoted twice in the same thread before!

Tangle I meant my last paragrph in terms of telling the little girl that it wasnt her fault, she's great, forget this one examiner - as a kind of confidence boost thing.

Its intersting that the other 2 candidates for the same teacher had equally demoralising experiences.

There are difficult examiners out there and it is a harsh lesson. As I say, the group appeal at my DD's school came to nothing, despite all the experience of all of the peripatetics shouting otherwise. It is best to move on.

My BIL is an examiner - yes examiners do get re-checked but its very unlikely that you'd win an appeal if you thought an examiner was being to harsh. The appeal we did was on the grounds that the marks awarded and the comments were not providing enough feedback and justification for the marks awarded - pus the overall feedback was blank!

ABSRM won't re-grade an exam, you get your fee back / against the next exam taken. DS2 was a bit peeved 'only' got a merit but it shows that you have to be super 'safe' to be awarded a distinction.

Best to get on with the next exam and practice harder!

The 2 teachers whose students did not do as well as they are expected are going to jointly raise an informal appeal, where they ask the ABRSM to look at the spread of marks awarded by this lady compared to other examiners. Apparently the ABRSM do not have to do this unless you formally appeal against an individual result (and then as others have said, you do not get your marks reviewed but will get your exam fee back if you win the appeal), but may look at the examiner if more than one teacher raises a concern.

DD will not be back from school until 6pm as has gone to a friends for tea, but plan to explain that others on that day also got lower scores than expected and we should be really pleased that she passed. I have bought her a new book of christmas carols as a treat for passing (and a flake!). Will definitely not let her retake - onwards and upwards....

She is really happy with the teacher. I have had concerns before that she struggles with the sight reading, but overall happy with her. My DS has a different teacher who has also taught DD in the holidays - he has a completely different approach and is much less formal. I have given the option of moving before, but she wants to stay with current teacher. DS's teacher heard her play through her pieces last week and was the opinion that she was definitely playing at distinction level - but he did not tell her that, just mentioned quietly to me.

Sorry, I havent read all the posts so please feel free to ignore if this has already been discussed.
In my 13 years experience as an instrumental music teacher the ony time I have witnessed results like these and the pupil played everythng securely and accurately is when the teacher had given the pupil the wrong pieces to play (ie. they weren't from the correct lists.) Could this have been the case? Accidents do happen. In these cases the examiner cannot pass the candidate in her pieces but will give as many marks as they can so as not to demoralise decent playing. Are you able to give a full run down of the scores?

Piece A /30
Piece B /30
Piece C /30
Scales /21
Sight Reading /21
Aural /18

I think your POV ( onwards and upwards ! ) and plans for moving forward with your DD on this are great Sticklebug Hope she enjoys learning some new things for Christmas ! My DD and DS have enjoyed learning special things and have sometimes played them for their grandparents or for friends, especially at Christmas.

She got:

Piece A - 19/30
Piece B - 18/30
Piece C - 24/30
Scales - 16/21
Sight reading 14/21
Aural - 14/18

We knew that her sight reading was a bit variable, so not surprised at that result, but the results for her 'mock' the week before were:

A - 27
B-27
C - 28
Scales 18
sight reading 12
Aural 18

and her teacher says that she marks them down on mocks...I suppose on the positive side she did better than expected on her sight reading!!

I am confident that she played pieces from the right lists as they were from the book of grade 3 pieces with the right dates on them..