To appeal against my DD's Grade 3 piano result???

[Sticklebug]

Please tell me if IABU and just being a precious mum or should look to appeal (not even sure if I can).

My DD had her grade 3 piano exam a couple of weeks back. Her piano teacher predicted an easy distinction for her (134 and 138 in 2 mock exams - her teacher is also an examiner) and my DS's teacher who has heard her play agreed she should get a distinction. I could hear her playing in the exam from the waiting area and although I am completely unmusical it sounded exactly as it had at home and she made no mistakes.

She went in confident and came out beaming with the view that it had gone well. She knew that she had made a minor mistake in her B piece and she had to start one of her scales again, but apart from that she believed that she had done well. She got a merit in her grade 2 (4 points off a distinction but failed sight reading) and a distinction in her grade 1 and she felt that it went as well as her grade 1.

I have just received her results online (which, unfortunately I let her read with me as we had every confidence they would be good) and she has scrapped a pass with a score of 105. She cannot believe it - she tried so hard and played so well and her confidence is knocked completely. Her friend got exactly this score in her grade 2, but she knew she messed up completely and had to restart one piece twice and did not complete another.

She is so confused and now says that she wants to retake it but would be so nervous as she thought she had done so well.

She has always been so confident in exams that I do not want this to affect her.

We have not had the details yet as they come in the post a little later. Her teacher is 'gobsmacked' and will ring me tomorrow to discuss.

Is there any right of appeal?
Am I just feeling so awful because I hate to see my quiet, confident little girl so destroyed? Or should I look to take this further for her?

YANBU for wanting to dispute it but it will get you nowhere. I enter chidlren for speech and drama exams and there are definately times when I think they have been harshly marked and other times when I think they have been leniantly marked but it is subjective in some ways.

The only right of appeal youhave is if some part of the exam procedure was not followed eg a scale asked for not on the syllabus or if there is a discrepancy between the comments and the mark eg if the examiner stated the piece was played accurately with excellent timing and expression but gave it a low mark. If the teacher is an examiner they should know this.

In my day, when I got a lower mark than anticipated on my piano exams, my mum told me "work harder next time and you'll do better". I chalked it up to experience. Querying the results is rather precious, and will make your DD think that if thinks don't always go her way, mum will come and force the issue in her favour. Unhealthy, IMO.

Please don't let your DD to feel that 'just' passing is the same as failing. It is a warped way of looking at things and should be nipped in the bud before she gets any older.
Experts have decided what constitutes a pass and what is good enough to be rewarded with passing the grade. If they believe that your DD is good enough, then she should not feel that she has failed. She should celebrate her success at passing, take note of her areas of weakness, learn from them and move on to more successes in future.

You've got the chance to give your DD some coping mechanisms which will really help her in the stressful years of GCSEs and A-levels.

Thanks for all the advice. I have just found out that 2 other children who took exams on the same day at the same centre failed - one on tuba (grade 4) and one on piano (grade 1). Guess that the examiner had pretty high standards that day!

Comments about sight reading are helpful and I know that this is something that she needs to work on, but it was her first 2 pieces that she scored particularly badly on and these were thought to be very strong...

Appreciate all the comments, but the point I was trying to make is that the dent to her confidence is that she did work really hard and was confident that it went very well so now is confused about her own judgement. At the moment she is not keen on starting grade 4, which is fine by me.

She has not mentioned it this morning and is cheerful getting ready for school, so will not consider anything more but will put it all down to experience.

it is not me pushing her to do exams here - it is definitely coming from her. I would rather that she just learnt for pleasure, which is what my DS does with a different teacher....different children, different preference.....

I would be more concerned about the teacher raising expectations and possibly encouraging complacency. It isn't normal for a teacher to talk about a definite distinction.

Well done to your dd: I remember Grade 3 suddenly being harder then the first two grades. I went from always getting distinctions to just scrapping a pass at grade 3. This made me work harder and for my following grades I always got a merit.

You daughter's teacher shouldn't have told her she'd definitely get anything.

I'm not surprised she's not keen on starting grade 4 when she's only just got the results of grade 3. It won't hurt her to concentrate on enjoying the playing for a while. It isn't all about exams, which you seem to get anyway.

It's a shame her confidence has been knocked a bit, but she still passed. That's the important bit!

she's very good to pass grade three at age ten.

I agree belgo

ds's mate who is 10 has just passed grade 4, I love listening to him play - I am plodding along with the basics still

I'm another who would worry about a teacher who talked about a "definite distinction". Are you sure that's what she actually said, not your interpretation? It may have also relaxed your dd too far and then she didn't perform her best.

I'd use it as a learning curve, dd1 didn't get as good marks on her grade two, and she decided she wanted to get at least a merit on grade three, so looked at her weak areas on the comments and worked at those. It worked well to motivate her.

I'd also be a little worried if your daughter expected to get straight on with grade 4. Yes, grades can be good for them to really polish off a piece, but there's also a lot to be said for having a more relaxed try at some pieces for fun.

Dd1 has done a grade a year since starting at beginning of year 2. She won't start working for her exam (in summer term) before the start of the spring term, and not exclusively on them at all.

Having said that, I had an examiner for my grade three violin who was struck off for only passing about half a dozen people over a year. I got 100.

The teacher told me in front of DD that she would get a definite distinction if she played in the exam as she had played in her lesson (where they did a mock exam).

DD feels confident that she played exactly as she had in her lesson and came out very confident because of that.

I did not want her to go straight to grade 3 after her grade 2, but she was very keen to. On the way to school she was talking again about retaking it - I have discourage this and said that it is really good that she passed and we need to not worry about it and just enjoy playing piano for now. Will pop out in a bit and buy her the christmas carol book that I was going to get her for Christmas as a treat for passing.

'Will pop out in a bit and buy her the christmas carol book that I was going to get her for Christmas as a treat for passing'

great idea!

Sorry but YABU

I did piano exams as a child up to Grade 7. I think the teacher was wrong to say she would get a certain result even if she is an examiner. Every examiner is different, this one was obviously just a harder marker.

And even though she did the pieces well, she might have not got good marks for the sight reading and aural. You said she failed the sight reading at Grade 1...?

It may not be the result she wanted but at least she passed. I don't think you can appeal but I may be wrong. If I was you I would put it behind you and move on.

dancergirl - she did not do well on the pieces (16/30 and 18/30), and that was what dented her confidence so much as she thought that she played them well. Her teacher had said that she had them 'perfect' including the 'louds and softs' and should not practice too much in the week of the exam so as she could over work them. She just practiced them once each day. I think that the dent to her confidence is that she played them exactly how she had in her lessons where she was told they were 'perfect' so she does not know what she needs to do to improve. She wishes that she had messed them up so that she knew what to do to improve.

Am not going to appeal - that was a precious mum moment watching a distressed 10 year old in a complete pickle...

She passed the exam. There is no extra benefit to be had from a resit. Crack on with next grade but take your time so that the pieces are solidly bedded before adding expression and musicality.
The sight reading and other skills are really important, especially if she thinks she would like to do academic music exams later. DS2 did his A level music this summer and over the course of the two years we had to get extra help with the basics because his external instrument teacher, who had taught him for years and got him through the grades satisfactorily, had not done enough for academic rather than performance requirements. Happily he got a B, which was a good result for him, but we were shocked that good passes from ABRM throughout the grades weren't really enough on the academic front.

Ooh I remember sticklebugs!

I think you are right, op. After a few days of only referring to how well she has done to pass, this will all be forgotten. And you will be able to give her more grounded expectations next time, since you know her teacher is prone to over-egging the pudding.

It does sound as though she needs to spend a while playing for pleasure before Grade 4, and also improve her sight reading. My son plays guitar and ensemble playing has helped him greatly with this. Don't know what pianists do though!

I posted this under a different thread yesterday - you can appeal but there has to be good and justifiable reasons. Personally I'd like all exams to be recorded so that if there needs to be a 2nd opinion it could be given on the same evidence.

Just as a note - our DS2 has gone through flute grades (now preparing for 7) and took up the piano too. He took his grade ABSRM piano and the marking was somewhat off what we expected - and the mark score didn't help much. Just so you know you can complain - they don't remark but will credit if you win the appeal. Bit of a difficult process we (DW mainly) wrote letter to say why the marking scheme was poor - no feedback at the end of the sheet etc. DS2 did the pieces again at school so sent a recording and a letter from his school to say it was him. We won the appeal so at least next exam will be free. If you strongly disagree with the marking and feel it was to harsh or not good feedback then you can go through this process.

I have never had a teacher predict merit/distinction although they have said to me in private that they thought she was playing to a particular level particularly if she did not achieve that. I have known teachers pull children out of exams if they are not playing at a merit level as they believe this is what is needed to pass allowing for exam nerves, tough examiners etc. I think the teacher needs a talking to for raising expectations. Also some examiners are tougher than others without a doubt even though there is monitoring/moderation by the exam board.

As a piano teacher, I am not impressed with how your DD's teacher spoke to her about the mock exam. I have never predicted a distinction, even when I am privately sure they will achieve one. My wording to these students is " If you play as you did today, I think you would get about 125. However, if you really think about x, y and z this week, maybe you could do even better!" Grade 1 students I never even predict a merit for, you just don't know how an individual child will react to the exam situation. However, without appealing, it would be worth your DD's teacher expressing her concerns about the marking to the ABRSM. Particular examiners who are overly harsh markers will only be picked up if people report their concerns, the board has no way of knowing what the actual standard was that a child performed to.

A gap before Grade 4 may be helpful in any case; this is where the exams move from 'foundation level' to 'intermediate level', and expectations ratchet up in the marking scheme. This is also the point when children often realise that there is lots of music out there that they can now play for fun; 'Grease' and 'Star Wars' are very popular with some of my students at this standard, and improve their sight reading no end!

The difference between your teacher's marking and the examiner's marks for the pieces is colossal. How bizarre! Especially as your DD's teacher is an examiner. She must be extremely able. The comments will soon arrive and that'll give you useful info. Then your teacher could appeal if appropriate. Good luck.

If she passed I definitely wouldn't get her doing it again but reassure her that she passed and as others have said at the lower grades that is all you need, the higher passes are nice but largely irrelevent at this stage.
You can't really "appeal" a music exam you have to resit it as no-one else can judge what her performance on the day was like.
As singing girl said her music teacher could express concerns on the marking to the board, but for your child I'd encourage her to make a start on grade 4, or have a break from exam pieces and just play for fun for a while which will build up her sight readings if she does lots of short different pieces that don't test her technical skills as much. If the piano teacher keeps predicting wonderous results and she keeps relatively underperforming consider changing teacher, although having a teacher you like and want to do well for is as important as their skill level at this stage.

First off, massive well done to your daughter for passing Grade III, piano is a difficult instrument :-)

I wouldn't worry too much, in the scheme of things this isn't going to make or break her confidence with an instrument it sounds like she genuinely enjoys playing. The best approach is not to make a big deal of it, tell her she's great, everybody else thinks the examiner was harsh, but there's no need to get hung up about marks on a music exam.

Personally, I would go for a break between exams now, it's sounds like she has a genuine ear for music and it might be good to let her explore what she really enjoys playing for a while without the constraints of the ABRSM curriculum. When she wants to go on, she can always do Grade IV, but to ensure continued enjoyment (and to really become a good player) it's important to do a bit of exploration I think... btw I make a good living as a musician and I've never done an exam!

Two of my kids have had exam appeals in the past.

My DS had a grade 5 appeal against a fail mark - his teacher still thinks the examiner filled in the wrong candidate's sheet to this day, as a boy he thought would fail pased with a distinction. The teacher appealed and my DS resat the exam at no cost to us the next term and got a distinction.

And my DD's school did a mass appeal for every candidate this last summer as they objected to every result for every child (they enter about 100 girls for exams across all instruments every term - they know what they are doing). There comes a grade and an age when you know how well you've played and are pretty much able to judge to yourself within a few marks what you deserve - its not that subjective. But they got nowhere - the Board did not accept the appeal. (My DD got a merit instead of a distinction - but dozens of girls failed, from grade 1 up)

DD is not going to retake - its her grade 7 - but if it had been her grade 8, she would have done.

So I'd say let this one go and move on - if it were grade 8 the grade would matter. If it were a fail it would matter. but its a pass and she wont care about it next year when she's got grade 4.

And stick with the thought that it was the examiner's approach that was the problem - her music teacher knows how to mark, so rely on her view to guide you and to keep your DD's confidence up.

Fingers crossed the written notes give a bit of feedback so you all have more information on what this examiner felt was lacking. If you scroll down this page there's a document called "These Music Exams", which gives quite a lot of info on what the examiners should be looking for and how they should be marking. You might find it helpful to understand what happened - possibly alongside the score sheet.

Where I grew up there was a big annual music festival - it had classes for all instruments (individually and in ensembles), speech and dance, for all levels (beginners through to near professional). Looked at from one angle it was still pressure to perform - from another it was an opportunity to do something with a goal that wasn't completely exam driven. (And you could nobble the adjudicator afterwards if you really didn't understand why you got a much lower score than you expected!) I don't know if there's anything like that in your area and, if so, whether your DD might like to do it as something different.

I think one of the problems with the piano is that it tends to be such a solitary instrument - especially in the earlier stages. If you play an orchestral/band instrument there's masses of ensembles you can get out and play with, you can focus on that instead for a while and/or treat exams as a means to an end (the right certificate giving you near certain admission to some groups). If you play the piano its much harder to find a goal that isn't exam driven.

Does her school have much going on musically? Looking back, the Head of Music at the first secondary school I went to was a fantastic musician and I learnt a huge amount from him - mainly through singing in the choirs that he put together as extra-curicula activities. Doing something like that for fun might help her develop some of the less obvious musical skills that might really support the more formal exam system.

Glad to hear she's feeling brighter this morning - and hope she enjoys the carol book :)

A music exam is only a snapshot of how your child performs. They may have an off day, or may be overcome with nerves. I did all my piano exams with shaking hands, which didn't help much in hitting the right notes.

A pass doesn't mean she's not musical.

I think music exams like to give off an aura of objectivity but actually the single examiner system is open to an awful lot of random variation. As I child I recall passing grade 5 with a merit, when I knew full well even at the time that I should have failed - I didn't even complete one of the pieces! I remember the lovely little old lady examiner to this day, she was just too nice to be an examiner:) On the other hand, I was confident enough that grade 6 was a really good pass - by that stage you know well enough how you are playing - and I got 102!

Put it down to experience - tell her examiners are not gods and that in this case they seem to have got it wrong. Her teacher thinks she is good, she worked hard, and that is what is important.