Dear Designers at GAP. Your boys collection is CRAP!

[QuintesentialShadows]

Dear Designers at Gap,
Did you know your collection is crap?

Year after year,
Skulls everywhere,
Do you really lack creative flair?

Skulls with a kite
Skulls eating tripe
Skulls on a bike

Is it all doom and gloom?
Are you celebrating the retail boom?
With snowboarding Death

You honestly need to take a hike
with this line and give it a
... Proper wreath

I'd be the same if I had boys too, Gerbil. That's why I find it particularly hard to come up with placement graphics for older boys, I prefer the aesthetic you're describing. But I don't decide what goes in the range. Luckily, only about 10% of my week is spent on that product area!

I'm going to seriously push for more of that styling though.

I don't really understand why it is hard to design for boys?

My mom brings me gobs of stuff from the US and it is all trucks and animals and guitars, not a skull in sight! If they can do it there, why can't we do it here?

What do I want?

Bright colours, non-violent pictures, adjustable waist jeans.

Why is this so hard?

totally agree, its soo fraustrating trying to find nice clothes for little boys. what are your favourite shops for boys clothes?

am abit new to this so I am assuming that we are allowed to name shops!

my sons LOVED a skull.
oh y es
and they arent rough and called Brannon

Boys per-se is not hard. Trucks and animals and guitars may work for primary age kids, (this is an easy age to design for) but its that age 11+ that is tricky as another poster says, everything has the potential to be achingly uncool.

Vivi, I always enjoy your posts on other threads and love that you're listening hard to the comments made here.

For what is wrong look hard at M&S and Next. It's all tractors, monkeys and stupid logos like Little Monster and Chip off the old block.

FFS I LOVE clothes and my son is a great clothes horse. I want him to be comfy, yet cool, with age appropriate colours. Thames sludge hues not good in an entire outfit.

Why is there a stupid fad for false sleeves?? Just have long or short sleeves.

Why do Gap especially put flies on their jeans for under 5s when it makes toilet trips that much harder.

There are some nice bits in Baby Gap, especially plain polos with the little bear logo. That all gets dropped from age 5. Stupid. Plain stripy tops and lovely gilets. The socks are fab. But then we get the graphic T's which are just rubbish. Don't get e started on the skulls.

Why do boys over 5 also have to have old man sandals in Gap too, they are lovely to size 11 then become grey/black borearses.

John Lewis have got sow great tops in their AW11 collection, especially the rugby shirts and long sleeved t shirts.

And another thing why do boys get about a third of the selling space the girls stuff gets? Mums of boys like their boys to look good too!!!!!!

If you can do anything about any of the above there's a big in it for you.

Viv you said above; "Boys 6-16 are very tricky to design for." Now you're saying 11+?

I just don't see why. What's wrong with plain nicely coloured t-shirts, rugby shirts and/or button shirts? Without pictures? Just stripes or even a solid colour?

It's what grown men wear, so why not little boys?!?

Totally agree with the OP. My son is only 2 and I don't want to dress him in brown clothes or clothes with monsters on them. And come to think of it (Boden, are you listening?) I also don't want images of guitars, camper vans, fishbones, skateboards, all that crap.

Oh and I don't want to dress him like an accountant (checked shirt) or a highway patrol officer (police badges on everything) or a lad on a night out in town (rugby shirts, those weird twisted jeans)

When I went to Seville in March it was lovely to see how they dress their little boys. Lots of them were wearing knee length shorts with tights underneath and in lovely colours and traditional fabrics. I know it sounds weird but they all looked absolutely gorgeous. And not in sludge brown or orange. But in lovely colours and beautiful textures. I know you all think that sounds awful but it was so nice to see a nation not afraid to let little boys be children, be dressed beautifully and not having to be coralled into these very limited visions of what is acceptable for men.

Wow thanks ER

I guess I'm listening from a commercial perspective, which I recognise puts me on shaky ground on here as I respect that these forums should not be used for commercial gain. But I'm a self-employed designer, I just happen to work for a couple of big retailers so by giving me a better idea you might be inadvertently improving profits for the retailers, but you're fundamentally helping me to understand that the consumer wants, and in turn getting you what you want!

As for false sleeves, these come under the heading 'added value' which covers all of those bells and whistles we can throw at a garment to get you to pay a tiny bit more for them. There are fewer opportunities for added value on boys garments (generally, we won't add diamantes/ribbons/sequins) so false sleeves are one of the few options, so it gets heavily utilised.

A lot of it comes down to price point. And not necessarily in an obvious way. Believe it or not, a lot of what you all describe is considered to be pretty a sophisticated aesthetic, I'm hugely generalising but this will be appealing to the kind of (urgh - sorry) parent who would use a site like Mumsnet. You want that sophisticated aesthetic, but you also want it to be cheap. Which is totally understandable, but if you want to pay supermarket & volume retailer prices, you have to buy a product that will sell in high volume - i.e. appealing to the masses. And the masses generally want slogans, skulls, licensed characters and prefer a (how can I put this?) less sophisticated aesthetic. Likewise the styling and fit details that you all find so irksome, they are all present due to the price sensitivity in this sector. Its all a massive balancing act where everything is compromised to a greater or lesser extent for price. That's not to say there isn't massive room for improvement, which there is, which is why I'm listening!

So to all of you saying that 'Its not that hard, surely?' Yes, actually it is!

Tee In volume retail, 6-16 is the age break. There are 3 age breaks in kidswear. You have layette/newborn & baby, toddler & younger (usually 2-6) then older boy encompasses everything from about 6-16. Which is damn hard as 6-10 you can get away with the transport/dinosaur/animal imagery, but 11+ that's tricky. We can't do a separate 11+ range as there isn't the volume in it to warrant that many additional options (styles) and as most of you with early teens will be aware, they start to look in places like topman and sports shops once they hit that age.

I cover your other points in my post above. Graphic placement prints come under 'added value' too.

I just want plain/striped/checked tops in nice colours. I don't want logos/branding/pictures and I most certainly do not want skulls!

We love the scandi look too, wish I could afford polarnopyret. Most of Ds's clothes come from Sainsburys.

We never shop in Gap.

There is a problem with girls clothes too.. the way girls of 5 and 12 are expected to wear the same range but I expect that is another post all together.

Methe I cover your points in my posts above.

I do think there's scope for someone to do this really well. If it was done well perhaps the fashion would change - because that's all it is. It's currently the fashion to dress boys like this. And what's so different about our market compared to Spain for example?

All of you who want plains and stripes, do look at Landsend.co.uk

They have a 25% off sale today. Code 25PCE

Yes, but pre-teen boys only have four areas of interest:

Playstation
Football
Tits
Willies

Two out of four of those are tricky to put on T-shirts. Skulls are a welcome diversion.

I'm also driven made by boys clothes! My little boy is 3 and it's a nightmare trying to find anything nice. Shoes seem even harder-why are girls shoes only pink or white?! They sell BECAUSE THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE, NOT BECAUSE I LIKE THEM :)

VivaPru I love the Scandinavian approach to kids clothes. Practical, hard wearing, well made, bright colours, fun patterns and minimal gender stereotyping

nameit uk site

KappAhl

www.nordickids.co.uk/

I agree with margiandjerry-why is the European market so different to the UK and US?

Oh, and I never go in gap either

H&M are a bit better than most, and I use Sainsburys for most of my dc's clothes are they are both so young.

Well, actually, GAP dungarees for little boys (DS 16 months) are completely awesome; he wears them virtually every day and they last and last.

Gap clothes were great for my sons when they were under 4!

Vivi - my 12 yr old wants to dress like an adult, his favourite t-shirts are plain colours with grandad collar and epaulettes(sp?) in purple, black, white and blue. He also has a white one with pale blue stripes, and a black one with flourescent green letters and symbols (he does have other clothes but these are the ones he prefers wearing)

All his friends wear similar stuff, but it does take some finding - hence why he has 4 the same in different colours!

10 year old still likes some logos (and skulls) but is starting to get into plainer stuff, so I can see him wanting similar things.

1yr old obviously doesn't have a choice, but i do try to put him in brighter colours - he will have years of navy/black etc to come, so is in orange, green, red whatever now!

seashells - those websites are great.

And ditto on the rant about girls' clothes as well. Even John Lewis fall down on this score - flogging hideous micro-minis that don't even cover a child's bottom for example (and telling me it's good because they can kneel down to play in them more easily). And too much effing pink. And Lelli Kelli shoes . Oops. I seem to have gone off on one.

:) they are, just a shame they costvso much.
(sorry for the typo in your name-i was rapid ranting typing.)