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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think families on free school dinners should not be expected to make voluntary contributions to school outings

122 replies

reallytired · 21/11/2011 11:03

I think that schools should use the pupil prenium for children on free school dinners to pay the costs of a child who is entitled to free school dinners to pay for school outing costs.

I think they should get rid of voluntary contributions. It is wrong the current system where someone on 50K can refuse to pay for the cost of an outing, but their child still gets to go, but someone on a low income will struggle to find the money.

We need a fairer system for funding outings.

OP posts:
FrillyMilly · 21/11/2011 11:23

Maybe they should just scrap school trips since they seem to be a very contentious issue. DD isn't at school yet but until I joined MN I had no idea paying for trips was optional. I thought if you didnt pay you didn't go.

I know we are better off then some people but having a household income of £50k doesn't make you wealthy. We struggle and some months we have no disposable income left by the time all the bills are covered. People live to their means

ragged · 21/11/2011 11:24

It is "voluntary contribution" but with menances from the school secretary if you are late paying.

Ah, fair enough, that is outrageous. I know of no such hassling at our school, although once in a while a trip gets cancelled. Our school also sometimes caps contributions (for something like performances) at one per family rather than one per child.

slavetofilofax · 21/11/2011 11:25

YABVU.

There are plenty of families like ours that don't qualify for any benefits except the universal CB, but still struggle to pay for things. FSM's would really help us but we have no hope of getting them. Why should I have to sacrifice things so my child doesn't have to miss out, but someone else who doesn't work and gets everything handed on a plate gets yet another freebie?

People on benefits already end up better off than those of use who work because of all the extra they get, like FSM's free prescriptions, free dental care etc.

happyinherts · 21/11/2011 11:25

Having a total family income of £15K and paying council tax doesnt make you wealththy either

Sapphirefling · 21/11/2011 11:28

Peachy yes I'm sure. I live ina part of the UK where the education system is run differently - the WTC criteria applies to incomes under a certain level and to children born after a certain date.

OriginalPoster · 21/11/2011 11:32

YANBU in the current economic climate, these trips are often too expensive for most people. At our state secondary school, the trips are £3-400 at least. We are relatively well off, but it is still very steep for people with a lot of children or on low incomes. People do feel pressure to pay as they don't want to let the school and other people know they can't afford it.

OriginalPoster · 21/11/2011 11:34

Sorry, do not agree with the first part of your post about people on free school meals, but do think that the trips should be more reasonably priced.

Original poster
reallytired · 21/11/2011 11:35

Prehaps the assessment criteria needs to be reviewed for free school dinners. I don't think the income threshold has been raised in years.

Schools don't have the time or the resources to do means testing. What is a fair way to seperate the can't pays from the won't pays. I would like schools to allow families to pay a monthy contribution for extras so that families do not get hit with the cost of (complusory) swimming lessons, an outing to hatfield house, desposit for next years school residental in the same week.

I wonder how other countries fund school trips.

OP posts:
nerfmum · 21/11/2011 11:36

VOLUNTARY??!! pah

Has anyone actually tried not to pay a school 'voluntary' contribution??

I did. My ds1 is in yr6, I have paid to every trip so far. But in October, had to pay for ds2 trip and other bits and just did not have the money to fund another. So I thought I would miss out on paying for this one.

Bad idea.

Teacher read through list to class of those who had handed back permission slip and those who had paid. She also told the class that she had talked to one of the parents that hadn't paid and would talk to the others!

I was so upset when my son told me this. Embarrassed that poor financing meant I couldn't pay, worried that teacher was going to call me up to have a go discuss.

I just thought that after paying for every other trip throughout his time in primary school, I could take one 'freebe' when money was tight. Wrong. Very wrong.

I sent the money in on next pay day. Blush

EvilVampireFrog · 21/11/2011 11:38

I work, we get FSM. Must be different in NI.

gramercy · 21/11/2011 11:43

At dd's primary school, the trips are few and far between and they only go to places that are free entry so the cost is coach + insurance.

Ds is at secondary school and there are lots of trips offered. Some he goes on, lots he doesn't. He knows these trips are expensive - I do not think it would serve any purpose if I kept banging on that it wasn't fair that he couldn't go on everything/other people are on £50K.

At ds's school those who qualify are entitled to learn one musical instrument fee free, go on language exchange trips and trips that include the whole year group and relate to a topic. I think this is fair - that's about what ds goes on.

PomBearAtTheGatesOfDoom · 21/11/2011 11:45

The families on free school dinners are also often the families where all 6 DCs have designer trainers and ipods and iphones and a computer, Xbox and/or Wii each. Why do people always just automatically assume that free school dinners = poorest families?
It's the working and just to say over the line to qualify families who are worst off. We get £20 a week tax credit too much to get free school dinners, yet dinner money for three DCs is just under £30 a week Hmm

newrose · 21/11/2011 11:46

If you're in a state school you are not powerless. Forget means testing, change the situation. I have two kids/no job/husband holding it all together, just, and I joined the PTA to do just that - now we raise funds for trips, events in school, Christmas parties etc. While we can't cover everything it does mean that there are a lot fewer letters coming home requesting cash.

happyinherts · 21/11/2011 11:49

PomBear it's crap isnt it? Who on earth decides the criteria for eligibility? We have family income less than FSM levels and have lost the EMA allowance of £30 for a teenager going to college and paying fares as well. College bursary given for FSM eligibility too... Poor are going to get poorer I think

WilsonFrickett · 21/11/2011 11:55

At our school there is a bake sale every Friday at the school gates, where each class takes it in turns to provide the baking. They raise an average of £80 - 100 and the money pays for that classes school trips. The residential week is fund-raised for separately, and the PTA subsidises other trips through the year, eg the panto trip is £5 per child rather than the £12 it would be.

I think this is a brilliant system as there is no 'direct' subsidy, and without this approach we definitely would have children who couldn't attend trips. I don't think this kind of 'direct subsidy' where those who aren't on FSM pay more is particularly fair and am a bit Shock at it tbh.

StaceymAloneForver · 21/11/2011 11:55

when my kids had FSM after xh left us high and dry i didn't pay for a single trip, i jsut couldn't afford it. School sent a few 'reminder' letters if i didnt explain why i couldnt pay like the first time where iwas ridiculously embarrased, but if i explained they left it at that, no bullying!

i don't think it should be automatic though, some people are worse off than others on benefits

Geordieminx · 21/11/2011 11:56

I am Hmm of £50k being banded around as if it's some sort of mythical figure that once you earn your problems are solved and you are suddenly so well off that you can not only afford to pay for your own child but also other peoples. Hmm

£50k a year can soon get swallowed up if only 1 parent is working, or it is a combined salary and you are paying £1000 in childcare costs

SoupDragon · 21/11/2011 12:02

The school aren't psychic. They can not tell whether you have forgotten to pay, are being an arse or can't afford to.

It may be a good idea to briefly explain when sending the permission form back which may help them decide which of the categories you fall into.

south345 · 21/11/2011 12:07

There is funding available called me too to fund after school clubs, residential trips and even get discounts on bikes etc to single parents, plus our school gets £1000 ish extra per child on free school dinners.

I always pay for my sons (we are not on benefits) but can understand why others don't pay as I always seem to be paying for something.

AKMD · 21/11/2011 12:08

Lost my post :(

A letter at the beginning fo each year would be helpful. Something like:

"These are the trips organised for this academic year, the dates of each trip and their associated costs. List 1 covers trips that are a key part of your child's curriculum. Please sign below to give permission for your child to attend these trips. The total cost of List 1 is £x, payable in 9 monthly installments of £x.

List 2 covers trips that support the curriculum but are optional extras. Please tick the box next to each trip that you would like more information on.

List 1:
Walk to local post office
Visit to local mosque, synagogue, church, gurdwahra
Day trip to Science Museum
Day trip to working farm
In-school theatre workshop

List 2:
French exchange
Skiing trip
Week residential at outdoor adventure centre
West end musical evening trip
Pointless day trip on a ferry to rubbish port town to go shopping for an hour"

And another letter for clubs, including free ones.

Done, sorted. No more ten dozen letters asking permission for a trip to the local shops, no requests for £20 for the next day out of the blue, everyone knows what's a necessary trip and what's not so don't get guilt-tripped over the west end theatre and parents can budget properly.

WhoWhoWhoWho · 21/11/2011 12:08

My DS is entitled to free school dinners (only has one once a week though), and I pay for every single trip he goes on. I budget my finances carefully and wouldn't dream of not contributing.

His school have done certain trips out and there have been a couple of these where children on free school dinners did not have to pay as there were funds available for them. Only happened twice but was nice.

squeakytoy · 21/11/2011 12:09

I think many of the school trips I hear about these days are just daft. I remember reading on here about a UK school who were going to Las Vegas.. why???? It really does not have a huge amount of educational potential.

Why not just keep trips to a realistic level that is affordable for everyone, or at least the vast majority. Museums, places of educational interest etc..

WhoWhoWhoWho · 21/11/2011 12:12

Reading through thread it seems some school do rather extravagant trips Shock. At my DS's school the trips are small fees, I've not come across one over a tenner (there would be uproar). I believe in year 6 they can go on a residential trip (UK based) which is obviously more, but lots of warning is given.

Peachy · 21/11/2011 12:17

Wrt to criteria above absolutely that applies in England and Wales.

Kladdkaka · 21/11/2011 12:18

This is one thing I love about Sweden. Schools and children are a high priority and are properly funded. All children get free school meals, all children get school trips paid for, all children get all materials needed for their education paid for (pencils, calucators, paper etc).