To think someone saying your hair is exotic & wanting to touch it is not racist?

[BoobleBeep]

I'm wondering about this, I have tried to link the articale by Hannah Pool in Grazia but can't find it online.

It was an article on casual racism in the UK and she cited an incident where she had been in the womens toilets and a white women had said how beautiful and exotic her hair was and asked if she could touch it (whilkst reaching out and touching it), Hannah Pool said no you can't and teh women said she was rude.

I lived in Japan for years and had blonde hair back then. Lots of people saidhow exotic my hair was and people liked to touch it sometimes, it didn't bother me at all. My daughter is mixed race and has gorgeous very thick black hair and I love touching it as it is so different to my own.

Do you not think though, that the rich and powerful have always oppressed the poor and weak, irrespective of skin colour? When colonialism was at its height, it was about the wealthy and powerful taking advantage of those who couldn't defend themselves and the ruling elite did the same at home to the poor and weak.

The only thing I have in common with David Cameron is that we are both white. I don't think he has my best interests at heart because of it.

I think that sometimes we (as a society) attribute certain actions to racism that are really about economic advantage and rich/powerful versus poor/weak.

It's up to everyone to define was racism is, but it's for everyone to say what racism isn't, particulalrly not those people who aren't on the receiving end of specific examples.

Can people not see how arrogant that is?

karmabeliever - you now seem to be trying to say that racism doesn't even exist at all, and that it's really, at its roots, class oppression...! And whaddaya know, it's because you've been on the receiving end of that. Bet you wouldn't appreciate me trying to deny it, saying you're overplaying it, or say you're being all offended over nothing.

I spent a while in China on my gap year and while I have dark hair I have green eyes. People flocked to take my photo it was surreal.

I didn't really understand that slinking

Didn't understand what?

what you meant with this bit:
"It's up to everyone to define was racism is, but it's for everyone to say what racism isn't, particulalrly not those people who aren't on the receiving end of specific examples."

No, I'm not saying it doesn't exist, only that other factors are at play as well as skin colour. People have often been oppressed because they had something that the rich and powerful wanted.

I don't remember saying that anyone was overplaying it or being offended over nothing, only that it is impossible to have a blanket rule about what is and what is not offensive because people are individuals and not a homogeneous mass with the same feelings.

ZZZenAgain - people are coming onto this thread all offended at the suggestion that white people have no say in what racism is. I agree, they should be able to define and determine what it is.

But I honestly think it's a bit rich for them to say what racism isn't. you can't just say the word 'exotic' doesn't have racial undertones, because you believe it to be complimentary. Especially when black and mixed-race people people have come onto this thread to say they don't like the word. To then keep denying it's racist is wrong, and really arrogant IMO.

Why the need to persist in using it, when people have said they don't like it?

This is just one example. it could be anything. If a group of people have had an experience or been called something that they feel has racial undertones, it's not up to a group of people who aren't subjected to the same thing to tell them that they're wrong and whatever it is is not racist.

Can people not see this?

ok I see what you mean now. Thanks

Fuzzy , what exactly is your point.?

SlinkingOutsideInSocks - do you think black people and mixed race people are the only people who can be described as exotic??

I'm white and have been described as exotic many a time due to my race, it didn't bother me, I found it flattering.. Are you saying my feelings on being described as exotic are irrelavent because of my skin colour?

Slinky - "It's up to everyone to define was racism is, but it's for everyone to say what racism isn't, particulalrly not those people who aren't on the receiving end of specific examples."
I'm reading this as 'but it's not for everyone to decide what racism isn't' by your context. Is that right? If so I agree wholeheartedly.

Ok. So racism is about intolerance and suppression.

I get the point about prejudice.

But please explain why it is an example of intolerance and suppression to admire someone's hair.

Giyadas, yes, crucial word missed out, sorry!

BoobleBeep - plenty of people have come onto this thread to say why they dislike and don't appreciate the word being used about them.

If you need to keep the word as part of your vocabulary under any circumstances, knock yourself out. I'm really not going to lose any sleep over it - you're entitled to do whatever you want.

Oh my God Spero, how difficult is this for you?

Admiring someone's hair is just fine. I do it often itself. Are you wilfully missing the extraneous words (exotic) and actions (reaching out to touch it anyway, and deeming the person rude when they take umbrage) that accompany the 'compliment'?

Spero - you're a lawyer. This faux-naivety is really not at all convincing

Karma, I think there is a lot of overlap between racism and classism, but there is definitely a large strain of racism that has nothing to do with class.

I have seen myself, wealthy black men in very expensive restaurants, still get called racial epithets by white people. Black men in expensive cars get stopped by the police for no reason, simply because it's suspicious that a black man is driving a nice car!

Look at Obama. He's the president of the freaking United States, just about the most powerful man in the world, and he's still got lunatics outside the White House chanting 'get that monkey out of our house'

The word Exotic. My previous post said that it meant simply 'foreign'. We have exotic fruit and vegetables in the supermarkets = dragon fruit, rambutans (although I haven't seen them for some time), mangos, papayas, yams, butternut squash - I could go on. Exotic simply means 'from another country' Please get that into your heads.

When people look at people who look as if they are foreigners because of their skin colour or language or the fact that their parents or grandparents immigrated here, they see them as exotic and that is not wrong. They are exotic. Having said that does not make me a racist. I am a white English realist with a very good friend whose parents came from Jamaica. so what does that make her? Yes, exotic.

Yeah, you keep on using the word no matter what, too Angel.

Again, you're entitled to do exactly as you want to.

Karma, if you truly believe that there is no racism in our society, read this: www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/jul/08/racist-stop-search-powers-challenge
and this:
www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jun/17/stop-and-search-police
and this:
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/22/black-unemployment-recession
and this:
articles.businessinsider.com/2011-09-02/politics/30127053_1_unemployment-rate-black-women-black-workers
and this:
www.poverty.org.uk/summary/key%20facts.shtml.

Racism is a very real fact in UK and US society and it's pretty dim to pretend that it isn't.

People like Angel always have one black friend

FFS have you read the thread?

It's pretty dim to tell me that I believe there is no racism in our society when I didn't actually say that.

I wonder if your friend would like to be thought of as exotic Angel? I suspect not. I don't know any black British people who find the term flattering. Have you asked her how she feels at being compared to a fruit?

Come on, Angel is a white realist and Angel had spoken.

Clearly s/he is right and has the final word on everything race-related. I mean, obviously.

Don't know if I usually use the word exotic for people, more for scenery, food, beaches etc. Never realised that non White folk might find it offensive when used to describe them. Someone said up thread that exotic to some means, different, not from here, out of the norm, not belonging to your world - it's an interesting look at the word which most people probably don't even think about. If I know a word is considered offensive to a group of people, if it makes them feel uncomfortable then I would no longer use it. Where I'm from people used Paki often to describe Asian looking people or any corner shop, they don't usually mean any offence at all and don't realise that any one might feel offended. Now I know different I would never use the word Paki and haven't for years. Surely this is how we move forward.