Not wanting to ask ILs to babysit.

[EnoughOfBeingLetDown]

When I had my ds 6 years ago, I went through a really awful time (bereavement, mental illness, depression etc) and barely coped at all. My DH was great throughout it all except for in one area, his parents.

We asked for their help many times but they just kept saying "no we're too busy" with that look on their face as if to say "you must be joking!". Obviously they are not obliged to help but we were really desperate and had no one else due to the bereavement. They also look after SIL & BIL children all the time. At least once a week so they could go to work overtime/shopping/take part in sports/hobbies etc so I had assumed they would be happy to look after our ds seeing as we were in such desperate need.

As it was they just said no and so we were left to struggle on. Not having any support in that way I feel had a massive impact on my recovery and my experience of motherhood. It makes me very sad to this day.

To add to this MIL would agree to babysit occassionally if we had something important but not child friendly to do. Such as we went to a child free wedding. When it came time for us to leave for the wedding though she suddenly changed her mind and and said she needed us back much earlier then we have arranged. It meant we missed some of the wedding, neither of us could have a drink, we had to drive back very fast, and we were very stressed about getting back in time for MIL. The reason she wanted us back was because she had decided she wanted to pop out to ASDA, even though she had several months to prepare for this.

There have been lots of examples of her changing her mind. One lost me some temping work which was my only source of income. One other was when I was due to have my second baby and she wouldn't babysit my oldest so I nearly had to give birth alone which I was very scared about. There was the time my DH was taken ill and needed to go to A&E and needed me there as he needed assistance and it would have been very difficult (impossible) with the dcs there too. They DID NOT want to help with that one in any way and gave me lots of dirty looks. There have been plenty of others but I won't bore you.

My DH wants to just let this all go and carry on as though nothing has happened but I just can't do this. Not once did he ever say anything or stick up for me and the dcs. He would just take it and be privately very upset that not only would they not help us during a time of need but would agree to and then change their mind, over and over again.

I have never felt entitled to the help but it would of been really nice. I very much needed some breathing space and me and my DH very much needed time as a couple so the wedding for eg would have been a good opportunity.

We have an opportunity to go out in early January and my DH wants to ask them to babysit but I want to pay a babysitter as I don't want to give them an opportunity to let us down again. I do feel that perhaps that wouldn't happen now but I don't want to take the risk. Mostly because of how hugely let down and screwed over it makes me feel but also I don't want my dcs to start to realise how reluctant their gps have been to have them.

My DH is very annoyed that I don't want to ask them. He has this relationship with them where he never sticks up for himself (and by extention us) and just takes it. He literally doesn't say a word.

He now says that our options if I won't ask them to babysit again are, to either use babysitters secretly and so we would never be able to tell them if we went out and it would need to be kept secret and not discussed with any other member of the family or friends of the family. Or never, ever go out again. He has actually said that we should do that. That is preferable to him than telling his parents that they have hurt us and let us down.

Thoughts please.

I would imagine your DH is struggling with some rough shit here. To me it looks like his sibling is the favoured one in the family and he knows it but is still pretending to himself that his parents will come through for him despite all evidence to the contrary. For him to accept that his parents are basically horrible must be very hard so he has buried his head in the sand at your expense. Sit him down, talk to him kindly and see if you can get him to see how much harm they've done over the years. Try to make him understand that he doesn't have to jump through their hoops any more. He cares far too much about them finding out you hired a babysitter. He is actually restricting his life and by extension yours for fear of what they think. That is not normal and he needs to see that.

Having shit parents myself I really feel for him. But I can also totally see where you're coming from. I think if you can help him come to terms with how his parents are he might start to phase them out of his life and things will improve greatly for you.

My thoughts are similar to what "calina* has said - this isn't about babysitting on their part really but the whole dynamics going on in the relationship your DH has with his parents. From what you have said it seems grossly mismatched as to what they do for 1 son over the other - and deep down your DH must know this. For whatever reason he seems to be in denial of the issues, understandably really if the alternative is to accept your sibling means more to your parents than you do.

What was his childhood like with them?

There is some power trip going on with his parents - I would doubt they are oblivious to your DHs feelings, but you never know they may just be really self obsessed people with a favourite child - and have never hidden it.

Your DH needs to face up to it all - but thats easier said than done of course, it sounds as if he has issues of his own regarding them that he needs to work through. He needs to keep it a secret about asking someone else to babysit because he fears their reaction and their disapproval - therefore he will go out of his way to avoid this, even if it means they let you down again.

I meant to say he fears their anger that you both didnt ask them - that they have to be considered (even if they dont oblige)

I think I remember some of your other threads, particularly the one when you lost work. Your ILs have to put up with losing face on this, as they have had their chance to look good; they have even had their chance to say no without letting you down.

Shame about your DH, but inf your relationship with the ILs can't get much worse, how do you feel about playing bad cop and treating them like the brats they are?

Paying babysitters is the only way to get on with your lives, and could help take some stress off your DH, while introducing him to the idea that his parents don't have to be the centre of your and his every decision!

What on earth is your dh so utterly petrified about ? Why is he incapable of standing up to them. I mean, what is the worst that can happen, they cut you off, seems like they cut you out anyway. He needs to grow a pair.

Thank you for your replies, will go back and read in a minute, just wanted to add some things.

My DH came home and I told him that I feel he has massively let me and the dcs down. He is very hurt by this. I felt bad for saying it but it is actually how I feel. I have had a lot of anger because of the situation but haven't directed it at my DH at all, but have been aware that there are certain things he should have said and done when each of these situations arose. I am not expecting him to have a massive family row which is the only way he seems to think it would go, but just to say "we are using a babysitter because you have shown in the past that you are not keen to babysit for us", or "I feel really let down that you won't help" etc. He won't saying anything.

He is also refusing to discuss it and is saying that he WILL NOT say anything that has previously been said in one of our discussions about this. This leaves us unable to make any progress. I feel as though I am being stonewalled (or whatever it's called).

DH also has some health problems and whenever we have talked about this in the past or it is even mentioned he will say it is/is going to make him ill. There is some truth in this as his illness is stress related but it leaves me unable to bring up something which upsets me massively.

He will also say "oh yeah I'm a really horrible person!" every time this or similar crops up which I feel is emotional blackmailing me into saying "oh no of course you're not!" and dropping the subject. He does that a lot!

Anyway I'll go back and read your replies.

For goodness sake he's hiding behind emotional blackmail, threatening to make himself I'll if you don't be as meek and lily livered as he is.

You should have brought up past grievances when they occurred as opposed to it all coming out now.

With regards to getting a babysitter, tell him that's what you will be doing and if his parents find out then so be it.

Do they really need to know every time you go out.

Why would they be upset at you paying a babysitter if they don't want to help.

You need to make your dh see just how ridiculous it is to come out with such nonsense as never having a night out again because he doesn't want to upset his parents. That is seriously screwed up

FWIW I do understand the not wanting to upset family members despite them upsetting you. I've had this with my DF recently. It's about being a nicer person than them, but he needs to see this is not on.

I don't know whether I remember any earlier threads about your ILs, or whether I just recognise the symptoms of a dysfunctional family, especially the disparity between their attitude towards your DH versus his sibling.

One of the hardest things for a person to do is openly acknowledge that they have shit parents. Partly because it opens up a whole can of worms about the past (and that can be scary to do), and partly because that person hasn't developed strategies for dealing with the abuse (which is what it is). Denying/ignoring it is a defence mechanism, but the longer this situation goes on, the less that defence mechanism works.

What I've learned from reading the "Stately Homes" threads is that people who haven't grown up in dysfunctional families don't understand that the "obvious" way of dealing with people like his parents won't work, and could make the situation worse. It's no good people suggesting he should just "grow some balls", because he's probably never been allowed to do that within his family dynamic, and if he did now then all hell could break loose.

If your DH isn't amenable to the idea of counselling for specifically this issue, then maybe you could dip into the "Stately Homes" threads and get some ideas from that as how to support him.

YANBU at all. I'm in a similar situation but at least my parents/ILs don't let me down at the last minute - they just refuse to babysit. The one exception is when I was giving birth to ds the ILs reluctantly looked after dd but they pestered dh constantly on the phone asking how long I would be

I resent it massively as I had severe pnd after both dc (which also badly affected dh) which they all knew about and we could have really done with a break/some help.
The way I see it now is that it is their loss and I vow to be more supportive to my kids if/when they have their own.
You can't change the way the gp's are and in your situation you just need to change the effect it has on you. You are quite right in wanting to use a sitter imo. Why should you risk your IL's ruining your night by cancelling? Maybe you could offer to babysit a friends kids sometimes and they can return the favour?
Your ILs are obviously not reliable so you need to find people who are.

I can also sympathise with the fact your SIL is treated differently. SIL had her first baby 3 months after we had our 2nd and the in laws booked a hotel to be on hand for when the baby arrived and told us how they had been helping out taking the baby for walks and cooking meals for SIL and her partner. They have now bought a holiday home round the corner from them so they can help out more!

You have your utmost sympathy with this as I have similiar issues with my inlaws! They go on and on about how much they love their gc's but never offer to babysit-sorry thats not true-they do it once a year on our anniversary for a couple of hours. I know many posters on here will say they dont owe us anything but having literally no help/respite from 3 dcs for the past 8 years has been hard work!

It sticks in my craw because they helped bil/sil a lot when their dcs were younger and still take one of their dcs over night at least once a month. Also mil see's fit to make snidey little comments about me being a sahm while never once offering to help us out with childcare.

You cannot force dh to stand up to them but you can. Do not go along with this madness about lying to them about going out as they are bound to find out. Just tell them straight up that from now on you will be employing a babysitting service as and when you need it. Say it politely and with a killer smile. Dont give in to any more balckmail from either them or dh.

SAy "no DH, you're not horrible, I love you and so do the children, but you are unable to see past your parents feelings to ours. Let's just not mention our plans to your parents, since they aren't involved and are completely unaffected by what we do, there's no need to tell them anything" and then just get on with your lives. Maybe that will ease your DHs anxiety about telling his parents, and their reactions. (It seems irrational to us, but to him it is a big deal, and maybe by doing away with the need to "confront" them, he will realise that actually, it is ok for you to have a babysitter and go out sometimes, and that is is nothing at all to do with his family... fingers crossed!)

YANBU

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. It sounds like your DH has remained the scapegoat within his birth family's dysfunction given that his sibling is so favoured. Its a very hard habit to break free of; the conditioning done to him by his parents goes very deep here and counsel for him to "grow a pair" is not productive. People in dysfunctional families patently do not play by the normal rules governing familial relations. He is very afraid of them and that shows through his words to you but it is still no excuse for not backing you now. His primary loyalty should be to you and his family unit now.

You have likely also come from a family unit where fortuantely this type of dysfunction is unknown so it is doubly difficult for you to deal with.

He is certainly trapped like many adults of such toxic parents in the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt. He certainly has fear of them, a great deal of fear. He is also emotionally stuck now between them and you. Counselling for him would certainly be a good idea but I don't think he is yet willing and or able to consider this.

I would book the babysitter yourself (you could use an agency like Sitters for instance). Neither of you should be beholden to his parents in such a manner; it does affect all aspects of your day to day lives to its overall detriment.

I would repost your initial post in "Relationships" and visit the "well we took you to Stately homes" thread on that page as well. Consider posting there as well. You may well want to read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward; that could help you as well.

Just wanted to add something else (again) and then will go back and read.

One day his mum turned up at my house and said a whole bunch of horrible stuff to me. There was a family row going on at the time and although they had said they wouldn't take sides they most definately did (at least MIL did). I told my DH and he said that she couldn't possible have said that. I said that she did. He said that if she had said those things then he couldn't possibly have anything more to do with her and would have to cut her out of his life. I didn't really say anymore. He never mentioned it to her, not a thing. Not even a "I heard what you said and that's not nice", nothing! It was just brushed under the carpet and I was left with the anger. I still feel so upset that he didn't stick up for me or even indeicate to them that it wasn't an ok thing to do.

He saw no inbetween, it's either take what ever they sling at him lying down or cut them out completely. He can't comprehend the sticking up for himself thing. I just don't understand it.

I would saying they are a bit of a bullying lot, his dad in particular, with his mum it's more guilt and emotional blackmail and sulking. They expect so much from him as though he owes them something. If they ask him for a favour and he can't do it (he would very rarely let that happen) they act like he's just spat in their faces.

I remember last year DH phoned me from work and asked me to drop something off at ILs. I was busy, the item was in a place I couldn't access easily and by the dropping the thing off I would of had to cancel some friends and their dcs that were coming round for tea. I was very reluctant as his dad could have picked it up later when he would have been passing anyway, he just wanted it delivered to their doorstep. On hearing how reluctant I was DH said "well I'll have to walk out of work then, come pick it up and take it round there!". It was like he couldn't comprehend the idea of saying that it wasn't convenient/possible/can you pick it up yourself etc. In the end I cancelled the tea which the kids were really upset about and bundled the kids in the car for the pointless trip to drop off the item, because I knew that he would walk out of work to avoid pissing off his dad and I didn't want him to get into trouble at work.

He most definately has low self-esteem.

Sorry for going on and on.

I think you should openly get paid babysitters. They have proven themselves unreliable wankers and mostly unwilling anyway so why hide it? I would probably go out of my way to never ask them for anything again.

Your DH is being gutless by not just discussing how they've made you both feel and hashing it out.

I hope your able to surround yourself with a real support network of friends OP - people who will really be there for you when the chips are down.

CailinDana Wow you completely got him. I've tried the gentle chats over and over and the rows too! I think he actually needs counselling. He went briefly but when they asked about his childhood he just said it was perfect. He doesn't open up and talk so what can they do!?

duckdodgers You are right he massively fears their dissapproval! His childhood was basically ok although his mum had some issues and his dad is the sort that won't have you dissagreeing with him, quite scary sometimes, competetive with DH on an intellectual basis. I don't like to disagree with him myself and he swoops down like a hawk.

plupervert Hi, I'm surprised someone remembered it! What do you mean abuot playing bad cop?

Trifle I did bring it up at the time, every single time. I would look at him and wait for him to say something and he just never did. He has always had this idea that it's not for me to argue with his family or he with mine. He has gone back on that now though because he knows how angry I get keeping things bottled up. He says he is happy for me to stick up for us. The occasion hasn't arisen yet! No they don't need to know everytime we go out but it would be hard to not tell them, would have to be a concious effort to lie due to bumping into each other out and about etc. (Live close by)

Eglu You need to make your dh see just how ridiculous it is to come out with such nonsense as never having a night out again because he doesn't want to upset his parents. That is seriously screwed up - - - I think it's a gut reaction. I said to him just now (went out to give him time to become rational again) that his reaction is that of a scared child trying to avoid getting into trouble.

hugglymugly It's no good people suggesting he should just "grow some balls", because he's probably never been allowed to do that within his family dynamic, and if he did now then all hell could break loose. - - - I think you are right. His dad reacts very negatively towards DH sometimes, a sort of disparging way. Will look into the SH thread.

Oh I saw your post halfway down OP. That is a total cop out on your DH's part and I think you hit the nail on the head with emotional blackmail. Knowing myself I would do the heavy lifting and lay it out flat for them myself. I'd tell him no excuses, if he doesn't deal with it, you will - his choice.

AmorYCohetes I have tried the friends thing but most of my friends have lots of help or are just generally not in the same situation.

RomanKindle Sorry that you have a similar situation. We also had the birth thing. PILs had my DH pick up our oldest at the crack of dawn and he then had to bring dc to the hospital. DC was a toddler so it was a bit of a nightmare as they didn't visit either so no one to take him for a walk or anything. When my SIL had hers there are all these pics of them at the hospital looking after the oldest etc.

pink4ever Do not go along with this madness about lying to them about going out as they are bound to find out. - - - That's already happened once and my DH hit the roof that I had told someone who had told someone who had told someone else that we had been out! He lied, completely transparently like a child in trouble.

PomBearAtTheGatesOfDoom Have sort of done that, it's just hard to keep stuff from them.

AttilaTheMeerkat Very true about the fear obligation etc. Will look at Stately Homes. Have seen it mentioned but never knew what it was about.

MollyMurphy He has agreed that I can deal with it. He is completely unable to. I feel as though they have disabled him.

Sorry for the amount of personal replies, I always think it is rude not to!

I do feel a bit sorry for your DH, it has always been that way I reckon.

However thats not really your issue. YANBU I wouldn't put up with the way your PIL treat your whole family.

Tell DH you are using babysitters from now on and will tell who you like. TBH this would be a dealbreaker for me. As for stopping in so you don't upset his parents, thats just a joke.