Not wanting to ask ILs to babysit.

[EnoughOfBeingLetDown]

When I had my ds 6 years ago, I went through a really awful time (bereavement, mental illness, depression etc) and barely coped at all. My DH was great throughout it all except for in one area, his parents.

We asked for their help many times but they just kept saying "no we're too busy" with that look on their face as if to say "you must be joking!". Obviously they are not obliged to help but we were really desperate and had no one else due to the bereavement. They also look after SIL & BIL children all the time. At least once a week so they could go to work overtime/shopping/take part in sports/hobbies etc so I had assumed they would be happy to look after our ds seeing as we were in such desperate need.

As it was they just said no and so we were left to struggle on. Not having any support in that way I feel had a massive impact on my recovery and my experience of motherhood. It makes me very sad to this day.

To add to this MIL would agree to babysit occassionally if we had something important but not child friendly to do. Such as we went to a child free wedding. When it came time for us to leave for the wedding though she suddenly changed her mind and and said she needed us back much earlier then we have arranged. It meant we missed some of the wedding, neither of us could have a drink, we had to drive back very fast, and we were very stressed about getting back in time for MIL. The reason she wanted us back was because she had decided she wanted to pop out to ASDA, even though she had several months to prepare for this.

There have been lots of examples of her changing her mind. One lost me some temping work which was my only source of income. One other was when I was due to have my second baby and she wouldn't babysit my oldest so I nearly had to give birth alone which I was very scared about. There was the time my DH was taken ill and needed to go to A&E and needed me there as he needed assistance and it would have been very difficult (impossible) with the dcs there too. They DID NOT want to help with that one in any way and gave me lots of dirty looks. There have been plenty of others but I won't bore you.

My DH wants to just let this all go and carry on as though nothing has happened but I just can't do this. Not once did he ever say anything or stick up for me and the dcs. He would just take it and be privately very upset that not only would they not help us during a time of need but would agree to and then change their mind, over and over again.

I have never felt entitled to the help but it would of been really nice. I very much needed some breathing space and me and my DH very much needed time as a couple so the wedding for eg would have been a good opportunity.

We have an opportunity to go out in early January and my DH wants to ask them to babysit but I want to pay a babysitter as I don't want to give them an opportunity to let us down again. I do feel that perhaps that wouldn't happen now but I don't want to take the risk. Mostly because of how hugely let down and screwed over it makes me feel but also I don't want my dcs to start to realise how reluctant their gps have been to have them.

My DH is very annoyed that I don't want to ask them. He has this relationship with them where he never sticks up for himself (and by extention us) and just takes it. He literally doesn't say a word.

He now says that our options if I won't ask them to babysit again are, to either use babysitters secretly and so we would never be able to tell them if we went out and it would need to be kept secret and not discussed with any other member of the family or friends of the family. Or never, ever go out again. He has actually said that we should do that. That is preferable to him than telling his parents that they have hurt us and let us down.

Thoughts please.

Well this morning he is slightly more rational. He is annoyed with me though that I have mentioned the subject at all. He claims to have apologised for not sticking up for us a while ago. I can't actually remember that but I don't think that's the point. Just because he apologises doesn't mean his parents should get the opportunity to treat us like shit again.

He was saying that I had agreed to forget all about it and just start again with them, but that must have been wishful thinking on his part as why the hell would I do that! They have not apologised so why would I forgive and give them another chance?!

It seems he has already asked them to babysit in January.

I have suggested that he should have counselling but he is very, very reluctant.

shame about january.

i would line up a babysitter as well. then when they drop you you can still go.

this has to stop.

He needs counselling.

Quite urgently, really.

Because if he doesn't, the hideous emotional legacy that his nasty piece of work parents have left him with will lose him the love and respect of his family. That's YOU, and the children, NOT his parents. That's one of the first things he needs to realise.

I feel very sorry for him, but he's getting to the point where, if he doesn't take action, all this will blow up in his face, and he could well be left with no family (because I do believe that you will not be able to continue living this life forever) - he'll then be alone, because let's face it, he doesn't 'have' his parents, does he?

You SHOULD get baby sitters. You SHOULD have no compunction in telling PIL, in a very matter-of-fact way, that you have. It's entirely UP TO YOU to do that, by the way. Your DH has no business at all, and absolutely no right, to tell you to lie or to require you to skulk and hide. I hope you stick to your guns on this one, because it is all part of making him realise that this is crunch time - you've had enough, and sitting uncomfortably on the fence is no longer possible. Just get off the fence and be yourself - the state things are in, it an't possibly make it worse, really.

You'd be better off without them in your lives, that's for sure. But maybe that's far off down the line. What I think your best and most important move now is to make it clear to your DH, through word and deed, that you have reached the end of the line with this ridiculous situation. Start living the way you want to, and make it clear that he has a choice to join you, start counselling and start moving out of this fog, or you will eventually move forward without him.

Re: the "bad cop" comment, it is becoming more and more apparent that DH simply can't face up to his horrible parents, that they have damaged him psychologically, and could do worse if they wanted to. Yet you are freer, so if you think he would accept using you as a shield, and if you are up for it, there are some gentle but firm things you could do, like booking a babysitter yourself (even for yourself, on a day when he's not around, either, so has no idea of it. when you break it to him, he will realise it wasn't that bad, and feel more confident about it)

Very sorry to hear you feel so trapped by this.

I don't think your husband is able to stand up to his parents at this point in time, and I agree with the other other posters who think he probably needs professional help.

Don't put yourself in the position where your PIL get to control your life. You have to take them babysitting out of the equation, because you know they'll never do it- a paid babysitter is the only way.

Your points about employment being jeopardised to pander to ILs really bothers me. You've already lost work, and your husband has threatened to put his job at risk to do something utterly non-essential. I think you need to have a plan in place for next time this happens (and it will), but you cannot keep dropping the plans you've made to fetch and carry for the ILs.

Inertia re. plan, what did you have in mind?

How about getting a babysitter in January and telling his parents that you hadn't realised he'd asked them, you'd promised the gig to a friend (or friend's kid etc) in need of a bit of pocket money and didn't want to put upon the PIL anyway.

And yes, get him to counselling.

I don't know to be honest. As it stands, it's much scarier than just lack of babysitters - your family faces possible hardship because between PIL and DH the paid employment of the household is being sabotaged. They are dumping you in it at the last minute by withdrawing childcare, and DH is willing to risk being sacked in order to jump to their demands. It sounds as though they have treated him badly all his life, and now all he knows is that he needs to emotionally blackmail you to do his (ie their) bidding. Somehow you need to get him onside in terms of not being pushed into meeting IL's demands- maybe he needs to be the one who tells the DC that their special events are cancelled to run round after grandma and grandpa? Maybe you get non-commital - will try to squeeze it in if I can sort of thing ( but don't change plans ) .

Re babysitters - don't even bother having the conversation again, just book a babysitter and tell him it's sorted. Then when PIL don't turn up you have it covered.

I totally agree with everyone suggesting counselling for your husband. He cannot deal with what they have done to him/continue to do to him and he needs outside help to come to terms with how far from normal his family dynamic was/is.

"He will also say "oh yeah I'm a really horrible person!" every time this or similar crops up which I feel is emotional blackmailing me into saying "oh no of course you're not!" and dropping the subject. He does that a lot!"
This made me think "monkey see, monkey do". It is emotional blackmail,and it's probably what he was subjected to throughout his childhood. BUT YOU MUST BREAK THE CYCLE. Could you respond with something along the lines of "No, you are lovely. Too lovely, they have walked all over you and ground you down nd I will not allow this to continue." Push the blame away from him and back onto them. And do NOT drop the subject.

Actually, and I'm not sure myself if this would be a good idea or not (I'm hoping someone wiser will come along and comment), could you use emotional blackmail yourself, since I reckon he's pretty much programmed to respond to it? Hammer on about how his parents will damage the DC, are damaging you, your relationship etc? But I worry that will prolong the damage and give him no refuge from it at all. (Comments invited please.)

Your poor DH. I have sympathy for him because I see a lot of myself in him. My mother is a sulker who never gives any approval. I was a people pleaser as a child and I pushed and pushed and pushed myself to get her attention. I did fantastically at school, and instead of being there to congratulate me on my marks, which were top in the country, she deliberately booked a holiday to coincide with results day. She has let me down time and again and yet I have gone back to her over and over hoping things will be different. She's not quite as bad as your MIL as she would never throw open insults but she knows how to niggle at people to make them feel two inches tall. Things only started improving for me when I finally accepted that she will just never ever give me the approval I want no matter how hard I try. Your DH is still locked in that endless hamster wheel going nowhere and wearing himself out doing it.

It is so sad and pointless, but at the same time it is incredibly difficult to admit that your parents, the people who should care most about you in the world, are just rubbish selfish idiots. It seems like your DH is a long long way from that point. I think what made me realise things were so wrong with my parents was the way DH's parents treated him, as if he was the most important person in the world. Between that and one big incident that finally brought things to a head the scales fell from my eyes and I was free. I hope that happens for your DH some day.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I have decided to just try to convince him to have counselling. Trying to get him to be more assertive with them is impossible, as it trying to get him to stick up for us/tell them that he is unhappy in any with with how they have treated us/to stop asking them to babysit when they clearly have issues with that/to stop trying desperately to seek their approval and being terrified of using the word "no" with them etc.

I do think though that all this would eventually fall into place if he were to have counselling and stick at it for quite a long time and really open up. It's the opening up bit that is the problem though.

I don't think the standard 6 sessions the drs seem to offer around here is going to cut it though as we can't afford to pay so not sure how we will get what he needs (if he agrees to it).

Again thanks for you replies, I was amazed by how kind and insightful you mostly all were.

Your husband is stuck in a cycle, and sadly he's pulled you in with him. Don't give in to emotional blackmail, and if he wants to walk off his job to do a stupid task for his parents, that's his responsibility, not yours. Stand up for yourself and don't let them treat you or your DC like they treat him.

You do know, don't you, that if he doesn't get some help, your DC will also be brought up in a dysfunctional family? Time for counselling, or time to consider your options.

Cant you ask your BIL and SIL to help? Then offer to have theirs in return at some point - your MIL wont like it if you get saked instead of her and maybe it will open her eyes as to what she is doing.

asked not saked*

MIL wouldn't like being "sacked" for the inferior branch of the family, either! Sorry, but that sounds a bit of a dangerous confrontation to enter...

This is very difficult for both of you I was your dh. Thankfully as I moved away from home and saw how other people live and treat each other I slowly began to break away. I was still very much obliged to them and deep in the FOG for quite a few years. What helped me realise even further was my pils treatment of my dh and the way they showed their unconditional love to him and myself

It all came to a head when my parents behaviour became unbearable towards myself and my two brothers (And towards all our partners too) in the run up to my wedding.

We all finally had enough and decided to stand up to them together, all 6 of us. Their reaction was horrific and after years of ridiculous behaviour we all went no contact.

My life has just got better and better since it also helps I live 2 hours away from them and my bros live even further away.

Anyway, enough of my story. I just had a word of warning. I think it sounds as though your dh is conditioned to be terrified of standing up to them, their responses etc (as lots of people have said) and I think even with counselling this is going to be a lot easier for him if you stand up to them together. Show a united front always, no matter what.

The warning is that this may cause mil in particular to try and come between you. She may tell lies or try ad turn dh against you to stop him becoming to strong and to break your united front. So just be aware of that.

I know it all sounds super dramatic but this is what these people are like unfortunately.

UPDATE

Well it had been a couple of weeks and he hadn't mentioned having arranged any counselling so thought I'd better bring it up. He was so shocked! I think he thought the problem had just dissolved or something because I hadn't mentioned it. Completely denied there was any problem and that he has any issues regarding being able to talk like an equal adult to his parents or be able to stick up for himself/us with them.

Again said that he was prepared to either never go out again or only if his parents babysat. He then said he would use a babysitter but only if we kept it secret!

I spent ages explaining how fucked up that is but he couldn't see it. Kept trying to turn it around by saying that I am the one with the problem for still being angry at them and that I have anger issues. I pointed out that he was just trying to distract from the issue.

In the end I told him that I wasn't prepared to carry on like that and that I won't live my life either in secret or at his parents mercy. I pointed out that over time this will affect my feelings and I'm not going to put up with it or live like this forever. He felt that I was threatening to take the dcs and leave him.

I guess he did what he always does which is to get defensive and it's easier than having to confront the deep down fucked up shit he has.

He eventually agreed to see the dr about counselling and said he would be going in 2 months time when he has a routine apointment anyway. I said that wasn't good enough and I have convinced him to go earlier I think.

It's a bloody nightmare!

Good for you for standing up for yourself - but it's going to be a long, hard slog!

I had a thought about the babysitting - is it possible to keep the arrangement of your ILs babysitting, but get emergency back up babysitting (that you have paid for) that will come out if/when your ILs pull one of their stunts again? It will cost you the same as though you were using a babysitter the whole time, it will placate your DH (and if he's so adamant they won't let you down then he can't argue about the babysitting back up because if you don't need it, your ILs will never know about it), but it will show your ILs that you will NOT be messed around with, as much as they may try if/when they do pull one of their stunts.

Glad to see you're getting some support and helpful suggestions on here, instead of hysterical "Leave the bastard.........." comments. Feel real sympathy towards you and to your DH too, as he sounds like he feels caught in the middle. It's tough when you feel you are trying so hard to please everyone and end up pleasing no one. Good luck with this. Hope you can find a way round it

ChitChattingElf I can't really arrange babysitters and then not use them as I can't afford to do that. He often using the money card as the reason we can't use a babysitter but I know that's just an excuse and really it's because he's afraid to tell ILs or have them find out. I have recently found someone who is happy to babysit occassionally (for money of course) but who I could always call up last minute if I needed to. No guarentee she would be available but better then nothing.

redwineformethanks Yes I was glad of that too!

" I can't really arrange babysitters and then not use them as I can't afford to do that."

How is this any different from arranging babysitters and then using them?

Basically, you have two situations:
a. babysitter is hired, gets paid X. inlaws are totally out of the plan. You're out of pocket X.
or.
b. in-laws are asked to sit, babysitter is arranged as backup, inlaws actually sit so you didn't need the paid sitter, but pay them anyway. You're still out of pocket X.

Either way, you've spent the same amount of money, the only difference is in who was actually with the DCs. (or less if the sitter is ok with you calling them that morning and cancelling)

Could you tentatively book her for the wedding then? Just ask her to let you know whether she becomes unavailable for it. It would REALLY be worth it as a way of standing up to the ILs, and showing them you KNOW what their game is and won't be a willing victim anymore.

MrsMuddyPuddles Because I just wouldn't go out as much etc.

Have you thought about just booking a babysitter, say for this Saturday, telling the in-laws in a very friendly casual manner, and then presenting it to your husband as a fait accompli? It would perhaps demonstrate to him that it won't cause as much upset as he fears?

Also, re counselling, how about trying Relate? Yes it's for couples not individuals, but it seems like you have some relationship issues to work on too, and you said money was an issue, and I think Relate gives reduced fees for those who can't afford it. At least they did about 10 years ago, hope that info is still accurate.

Agree with parakeet's suggestion, why not pick a new night, not for a special occasion, book the babysitter and go for dinner/drinks/to see a movie, you and DH. Take control, make it clear that this is happening, it's not all that scary.

If he accuses you of threatening to take the DCs, perhaps you should say "you're just using emotional blackmail now, stop acting like your mum, I want us to discuss this issue" - his statement that you are going to leave is just a way to stop the conversation about his and his family's faults, and make it be about you reassuring him that everything will be ok. He doesn't actually think you would leave, but by saying it he stops the part of the conversation he finds difficult, the part that involves him accepting he has to change. He has learned this from his family. He is stepping into his parents role and putting you in the defensive role. Refuse to engage with the blackmail.