to think it's time we stopped keeping "pets?"

[Hullygully]

Why do we still do this?

Apart from working animals, guide/guard dogs etc, isn't it odd that we keep animals in our homes? Expensive, huge amounts of waste that has to be dealt with, extermination of songbirds etc etc

Yes?
No?

Am discussing with dd, so interested in views!

Hully yes. It's that simple. I lost my 18 year old cat on Friday and it's shocking me how much I miss his presence. I have never lived in a house (other than my parents) without him, and he has been in the background of everything good and bad that has happened. When all was black after 6 attempts of IVF his fur dried my tears.

Animals are good for the human soul.

Maybe it's not that we should stop keeping all pets, but we should look at what type of animal we keep? Cats and dogs, on the whole, seem quite happy living with humans. Exotics....not so much. And I watched the Louis Theroux doc the other week about the people in the US who keep tigers/chimpanzees/bears as pets. That made me sad. Especially the woman who had pierced her monkey's ears.

fell, they really aren't, tho

I know. They are not proper pets. A guinea pig is proper, and so is a rabbit. A hamster is shite. Too small to cuddle, smelly, bitey, not friendly, and too sleepy. And always getting lost. Not a real animal at all.

What about elderly people? How many little old ladies live alone except for their cat? I cannot stand cats personally, but can understand what they mean to some people.

Aw shucks Hully, thats my first MN hug.

Thanks!

My dog is expensive - DH calls him my luxury item. I'd much rather have him than a fancy car or designer handbag or whatever else people spend excess income on.

He also serves useful functions - I work from home, he is company but also I know know one is ever going to creep into the house undetected. Cold callers never try to put their foot in the door.

DD is an only child and the dog is her friend but also another living being who needs consideration, which I reckon is a Good Thing.

I'm not so sure about other animals, but humankind co-evolved with dogs.

Ooh... he's just got up on my lap, lovely. I haven't turned the thermostat up this morning and was starting to feel chilly, but now I don't need to.

but chickens Americans are all mad. We know that.

In fact,speaking of mad, I'll show you mad where pets are concerned. Hang on, back in a mo...

I have 3 dogs, large, lovely, good company, yes they cost a bomb with insurance, food and associated costs.
But they keep me sane, we walk, play, they are company, good fun, the kids get a lot out of them.
Also I show a bit and have made excellent friends, so it has enhanced my social life no end as well...
And mine do not eat garden birds... They chase rabbits though...

No no much worse than dog clothes. Hang on, stop interrupting.

My dog did kill 2 baby blackbirds when we first had him - he thought they were something to play with . But since then he has served to keep murdering felines cats out of the garden and will calmly watch birds pecking at his bone.

I think we need to be careful about the human tendency to anthropomorphise and fetishise "the wild".

Life: nasty, brutish, short. For most animals (and for humans for the vast majority of history). Small animals spend most of their lives one step from starvation or terrified. Humans have manipulated the "wild" (at least in this country) to suit our own ends - we killed all the wild dogs and there are precious few wild cats left, we poison birds of prey and shoot foxes. We don't really like predators of any kind, natural or not (apart from humans of course).

This isn't a reason for keeping pets of course, but I'd need more convincing that their domestic lives are measurably worse than their wild ones would have been.

I have a rat. In a cage! I used to have more than one but they died. So now Scooter lives in solitary splendour - I wish she didn't but I can't introduce another now as they'd fight.

I accept that she doesn't live a natural life. But if I let her go she's live about 5 mins before being run over, killed and eaten by cat/fox/dog, and probably starve as she is picky over her food

But you could argue that no animal on the planet lives a 'natural life' because human being have skewed the environment so much in their favour. If you were a tiger in more or less any part of the world where tigers come from, your life expectancy will be pretty short and your 'natural' way of life compromised. Ditto polar bears. Pandas. Take your pick. And when any animals have the unmitigated gall to actually thrive in close proximity to the settlements of home sapiens (rats, seagulls, urban foxes etc) we all go 'ewww, vermin!' and then proceed to kill 'em!

I can't help thinking that animals kept safely in cages and well cared for aren't that badly off in some ways.

x-post suzi!

His life is definitely better than in the wild.

Re dogs clothes. DS2 was closeted in his room for a while yesterday with the dog. They both came downstairs a bit later - DS2 looking pleased with himself, Harley looking enbarrassed. Harley was wearing one of DS2's t-shirts. With scooby doo on it.

Most puppies aren't sold until after they are weaned!

I agree about the disposal of poo issue. I usually wrap in a dock leaf or scrape off onto a brambly ditch so nobody can possibly step in it. But we are in a rural area with litte traffic across footpaths and fields. Putting it into a plastic bag and then into landfill is a bit revolting, I think, though of course I do this in parks or pavements.

I have birds in aviarys dotted around my garden, each has their own aviary (because they would eat each otherwise) and their 'homes' are designed for their individual needs.

Only one of them is not flown free, because the previous owners kept her in the wrong conditions which has left her with most of her wing feathers missing and no tail, making flying difficult, she has to wait until next year before we can even contemplate, exercising her as she should be, she also has ishoos, caused by ill informed humans. Another was passed from owner to owner, she trusted no one, it has taken over 6 months and a lot of hard work for her to trust us and for her to have confidence in her flying abilities, without us she would now be dead.

None of them can ever be released into the wild, they are all captive bred and have no/little idea of how they should look after themselves. They are very well looked after and all have a life very different from the one they came from.

Well I think there are far too many dogs and cats around. Cats have a devastating impact on local wildlife and dogs shit all over the place. Yes I'm sure that responsible dog owners pick it up, but there aren't enough responsible dog owners around. And I'd be interested to know what the statistics are for dog bites per year.

Birds should never be kept in a cage. In fact no animal should really. We have a hamster and when he dies we won't be getting another one. In the wild he would have the run of the place, but now he has a very small area in which to live, there's hardly anything for him to do and he's always gnawing at the bars, which apparently is normal.

I understand the argument about teaching kids responsibility but I don't agree with it. It is never dd who cleans out his cage, it's usually us. She'll do it if we nag her, same with changing his water and food. And I do think to put animals in a domestic environment for the sake of teaching kids responsibility is a bit of a lame excuse.

As for zoos, yes all very well and good but if we weren't so intent on killing them all for the sake of some palm oil based moisturiser and soap or opium crops or simply to build more houses, then there would be no need for zoos. Animals are not meant to be fed easy meat, they are meant to hunt and forage and these natural instincts are slowly going to be wiped away because we can't be trusted to let these animals simply 'be' in their natural environments.

camel, it's a shame that these birds have to be rescued. Perhaps if people didn't keep so many as pets then there wouldn't be so many that needed rescuing. Of the percentage that are luckily rescued, there are a lot more who sadly suffer and die.

LittleDog has clothes. He is a very, very small whippety shaped dog. God alone knows what breed he is, even the rescue centre I got him from was clueless. Think of the teeny, tiniest, shiveriest whippet imaginable. Then cross it with something like a very small Yorkie. Result, possibly something rather like LittleDog. Small, skinny, waif-like with lots of random hair. Sort of like a chihuahua sized lurcher.

Very bizarre looking. Also not very good at keeping warm, hence clothes. Nice, snuggly warm sweaters and onesies means warm, happy doglet.

SarahS I am in love with your dog