to wonder how woman could inflict deliberate pain, presumably twice, on her 2yo DD

[tigerandtabs]

In Claire's earlier today whilst two year old having her ears pierced - she was sat on grandmother's knee, mum and grandmother both said hold still etc, assistant fired gun thing and child screamed and screamed. Had to leave the shop as too upset to stay and see how on earth they were going to persuade the little mite to hold still for the second one..... As a mum who cried when taking DCs for vaccinations, and regardless of the aesthetics or otherwise of small children with pierced ears, I just cannot understand how someone could do that to their child.

Godwin always seems to hold out for longer than usual on MN threads...you are a civilised lot.

You cried when taking your children for their vaccinations?!?

I've seen women crying when bringing their children in & often the children make far less fuss than the mother. I certainly haven't cried at any of DS's vaccinations.

I don't know why people have to mutilate their own bodies, let alone why they do it to their children. Why not leave your body as God made it?

Anyway, as for children's ear piercing, what about when animals' ears are pierced so that labels can be attached to them eg cattle. Don't they hurt?

No no NO. People did this thread all wrong!

Wannabe came in with "I don't care about other cultures etc. etc." long before anyone had mentioned a word of Spain or India. I didn't see any (okay, I read to about post 30 and got bored) of the usual "I had mine done in utero and there's nowt wrong with me". There was NOT enough frothing beserking and I didn't see ONE mention of a petition to the government to have this stopped (last thread I saw on this had that as it's whole premise), which is, quite frankly, not up to scratch.

This thread gets 1/10.

BartletForAmerica Afraid I did - it was the whole concept of letting someone hurt my baby that I struggled with. Mind you, I am not exactly a grown-up when it comes to needles and myself ..... Love the name by the way, we love Jed in this house.

It's horrid:
Looks horrid, always no matter what culture
Unnecessary prettifying of little girls, as apparently that's their role in life
Nasty, it does hurt
Can cause infection

Nailik. So you didn't give your dd's piercing a second thought when she was 4 months, how lovely of you. I suppose her ears and your boy's foreskin.....what about you love? sod the children's feelings.

I think it looks naff in young children but child abuse my arse.

no i didnt, as it was normal, it didnt traumatise myself or anyone i know, or have any bad effects. it was just something that was part of life, tbh my kids scream more when i cut their nails, and for a longer time, then when i pierced her ears.

and when ds was circumcised, he didnt cry at all. its very well saying they should have a choice as adults, but when all the adults around you are saying they are glad they had it as a child, and have no bad effects from it etc then why would you change that?

where are all these men and women that have had ears done/ circumcision (m) as a baby and regret that it has been done? or feel they should have had the choice with their own bodies?

I guarantee that there is more who are happy it was done.

It's unnecessary and painful.

YANBU.

I'm glad you clarified and completely delighted that I come from a culture where we don't expect to chop off or add bits to our babies, mine were born perfect!!
My daughter is naturally beautiful enough and my sons' have bits that work well and look perfect.

(oh and if you look on google you will find plenty of men that feel violated about being mutilated, but that's another thread)

My dd who is 4 has made the choice for herself that she doesn't want her ears pierced because of the pain. What right would I have had to put her through that pain by having her ears peirced before she was able to say 'no'?
I think in a generation or so people will look back at the socially/legally acceptable ways people hurt their kids (piercing/smacking etc) in the same way as we look at caning now. Just because something is seen to be acceptable for a time it doesn't make it morally right.

I think there should be an upper age limit.

Shop staff should not be restraining a child.

There's plenty of time to get all manner of piercings when they are teens.

So this Claire's shop let a two year old have their ear pierced. I wonder if their policy is whatever the parent says is OK at any age. What was put in the ears as I've been to that shop once and it's all plastic stuff?

But for the record I had mine done at 4 (very late) not at a shop and my mum is not chavvy not an abuser but a really nice woman. It did make my school friends very jealous later on. But hey ho.

I wonder if it's a 'right of passage thing' with some people. If so, then that's cultural, too. IN my day it was 16 - parents now are letting their kids do it a bit younger.

anyway here clares dont do it for kids, only jewelers shops do it. and i am not sure now my dd is asking for ears pierced if i should do it or not.

tbh i learnt from the first time with dd1 that it is unneccesary and a waste of time, and although she is asking for it at 4, is 4 actually an age where she can comprehend the long term effects of decisions?

actually is 16 an age where you fully think about the consequences of decisons? for me it wasnt.

posie, for every man that complains, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands that are happy about it, but i understand your reasoning, that one is too many.

This topic will go on for years and years but the fact still remains that you must be a pretty damn selfish parent to inflict that pain on your child for the sake of vanity.

It does not look good, it is not necessary and I will never understand how a parent can inflict that unnecessary pain onto a baby/young child that they are suppose to protect from hurt & pain.

Jingle - I have a year old ds -so will never know this girl thing with kids. But I had mine done very early (for a Brit) but late for a kid in my mum's culture.

I'm soooo glad she did it for me early as I have no memory of it. I'd worry about having a kid done at a shop like Claire (it's not a shop that sells gold is it?).

But I honestly think that from what I've seen (I'm middle aged) in our western culture it's left to the individual in some sort of rites of passage for girls and that's why in my day it was sort of 16 years old and now it's younger.

I'm a person who hates intervention so I'm glad my dm had it done for me v. young as if she hadn't I wouldn't have had the guts to ever have it done until quite late. She came with me for my nose piercing at 19 - she was excellent - I nearly fainted.

I had a colleague who had worked at Claire's.

The "training" consisted of watching a short DVD, watching a "trained" colleague do it, and then having a go on a cuddly toy with floppy ears. If I had had a daughter there is no way on this earth that I would have let her go there while she was of an age for me to have any say in it.

MNers with DDs not yet done: you have been warned.

I was 17 when I had mine done and it hurt so much I almost didn't have the second one done.

I would no more inflict it on a small child than poke my own eyes out.

Andrew - that's interesting. I've been in the shop once and given the goods on sale never thought it would be a place to have ears done (all plastic and elastic - not quite sure what they sell and to whom).

I had mine done at 4 (I think) abroad at doctor's surgery (and no gun) and twas all fine. I'd worry about a gun in the wrong hands - I've seen many earrings a bit off centre on the lobe.

I'm very happy I had mine done young and I don't see it odd or chavvy etc but given the views on mumsnet (so I assume the entire country) I'd worry about getting it done for any daughter of mine. Sad - I was brought up in a multicultural country but my children are not.

giveitago. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a country as mixed and tolerant as Britain.

hmmm so if on average we think it's okay for me to get DD's ears pierced? What about nose? What about belly button? And what, about a tattoo....on her forehead saying 'Mummy's little fashion accessory'?

Posie - yup UK is pretty 'tolerant' but mn isn't for sure. I always find those that bang on about mulitculturalism are those that are the least toleratant (for want of a better word) - so v. glad I have a ds although he's decided at 5 he's going to be lifelong punk and wants necklaces and bracelets and a nose ring (so not a great thing for mumsnet on sooooo many levels).

I never wanted them because a friend told me your brain runs out of the holes.

I still haven't had them done!

I'd never go to Claire's - that's just asking for something nasty imo. And in the window, where everyone can see!

Oh scatter - that's good and if you want to wear earrings you can get the clip ons.

I'd never got a place that only had plastic and elastic to get either my ears or or any other part of my body done!