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Original poster

to want to know if DogsBestFriend has been banned from mumsnet?

65 replies

GetOrf · 07/11/2011 19:43

Because if she has been I would like to know why.

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MNHQ

OliviaMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:08

Grin
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:12

Yep she has been banned, sadly, for repeatedly ignoring guidelines re personal attacks, despite warnings.

We have an essential philosophy - to make parents' lives easier. We do understand that people have strong feelings (in the doghouse in particular this seems the case) but if someone is consistently agressive in the way they express them it does tend to stifle free speech and personal attacks also make people feel lousy.

We'd never ban someone after one or two instances but if they really seem unable to follow our guidelines then we have to ultimately conclude that Mumsnet's not the place for them.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:16

@BeerTricksPotter

There was nothing wrong with her behaviour on that thread though. Nothing at all.

Fraid there was a nasty personal attack and she was on a warning for that - we really don't ban people for no reason - it's a pretty rare occurrence for non-troll posters.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:19

@GetOrf

But Justine, she wasn't aggressive on that thread imo. She was understadably frustrated, but then we all were.

I don't understand this. You let twats like DaftPunk free reign on here for years, yes she was banned in the end but not after seriously hurting people's feelings with her homophobia and racism. DBF shouts at people who she feels are selfish and clueless re dogs, but she has done sterling work both on Mn and off the board with MNers.

She has tried to help TLES on several occasions and was evidently annoyed because she could prove that TLES had spun a web of lies.

Please can you say if you have banned TLES for repeated fabrication and trolling?

"You are a liar, foolish and a disgrace, not just for what you are doing to this dog but for trying to discredit someone who works her arse off to save them. You appall me..."

Tbh DBF has had free reign on here for some time, saying things like this. The dogma in the Doghouse has gone too far - we've had plenty of people come away really scarred by the aggressive stance of the posting in there and quite simply, it's not what MN's about.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:20

@ItsonlymeMrsDB

Justine

But surely a couple of my posts on the thread could have been seen as personal attacks ?

I felt I spoke to the op much more harshly than DBF did ?

DBF consistently tried to help, and it was all rebuffed and she was called a liar for her trouble.

Maybe so, but you weren't on a warning for persistant personal attacks. We have to draw the line somewhere or it all goes to hell in a handcart.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:23

@Pinot

She was banned for that ?? Fucking hell.

No, not just for that, she was banned for persistently being aggressive and shouty, despite many pleas to tone it down.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:25

@zimm

I love DBF she speaks so much sense. What is the effing point of a ban anyway? You can just create a new account. MNHQ are stupid fatheads.

You can, of course, and if you did we'll ban you again, I'm afraid. It's about drawing a line about what and what is not acceptable on here. The Doghouse has become a scary place and we are here to make parents' lives easier, not scare them shitless.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:26

@Northernlurker

As an aside - Justine - what happens when you get summoned to come on and Say How Things Are? Is there some sort of siren? POssibly a costume change? And why does Carrie never have to do it?

She's much smarter than me Wink.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:28

@HecateGoddessOfTheNight

I believe there is actual evidence that the poster in question is a liar, or rather has told lies, or rather has said one thing and then another - even though there is evidence in the form of previous threads that she had deleted but which other mners kept copies of, and in the form of PMs.

So to call someone who you can PROVE has lied - a liar - is less a personal attack and more stating the obvious, surely?

I mean, in court you can't be done for libel if you can prove it's true...

It's not about the poster in question tbh - it's about how you treat all posters.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:32

@Signet2012

Ive seen much much worse. TBF you only have to read AIBU to see some of the things people say to each other.

The lady who the dog thread was about was an idiot. She took on a dog that she could not look after hence it now needing rehoming DBF was not in my opinion rude, she was too the point.

She is no more rude than a handful of other posters who randomly post insults to people when they have nothing more constructive to say.

DBF is passionate about dogs and bound to be more emotive in any subject towards her welfare I didnt find anything wrong with her posts, the woman is a bloody idiot for getting a dog against all advice. She can hardly complain when people flame her for it!

Fair enough if DBF has been warned before but a total ban is over the top dont you think?

Yes I agree it would be if it was just this thread - but the lecturing and aggressive hectoring has gone on for some time, tbh. As said, the Doghouse is not exactly welcoming to posters who often are seeking help and practical advice, rather than a telling off. I do understand that many of us have strong feelings about the dogs, but a bit of compassion towards humans wouldn't go amiss. There was a poor woman a while back who got into trouble for not being able to cope with her dog after her dh died...

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:35

@StrandedBear

Is anyone else wondering when this thread will go poof?

Seriously Justine have you banned TLES? Would you re-consider the ban on DBF considering she was a)telling the truth and b) there are so many of us that actually like her

I don't know TLES's backstory but we will certainly look into it and will act if she has been deliberately inflaming etc - please do mail us with your concerns.

Happy to consider lifting a ban - obviously if loads of people think we should - but I do think the Doghouse has to change and I'm not sure if DBF can moderate her posting style - currently it's very anti the spirit of the site.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:37

@StrandedBear

wellies fair enough she has had warnings but for this to be the final nail in her coffin is ridiculous.

Justine HAVE YOU BANNED TLES?

Answer below (or above depending on your preferences)

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:38

@CaptainKirksNipples

TLES is a troll though. She admitted it on another deleted thread a few years back. She had a different name then. If you don't do second chances then get rid of her ASAP!

We do second and even third chances, captain - draw the line at 5-10 though...

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:41

@BeerTricksPotter

There are posters who pop up constantly just to annoy and upset. They've done it for the 2 years I've been here and will continue to do so.

It's a pathetic excuse to ban someone. I don't think MNHQ like 'personalities'. Especially if they actually do some good offboard.

Report them! We will always look into it.

You're right, we do have a view that all posters are equal and don't agree with posters who lay down the law on particular boards. That's because
a) We believe in folks' right to contrary opinions
b) We'd like to think MN was a tolerant and helpful place

We have absolutely nothing against people doing good things, on or off board. That would be peculiar.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:43

@Honeydragon

I'm not sure if DBF can moderate her posting style - currently it's very anti the spirit of the site.

Justine that's not true, no one notices her non animal posts. When my Mum had cancer last year she was wonderfu, I had a couple of sensible, supportive and well thought out comments that really helped me Sad

She is also just as funny and witty as everyone else. People go to her as they know she is dedicated to this cause and can help. Yes she loses it sometimes but she has NEVER refused to help anyone on here.

I beg you to reconsider, some vile posters are allowed to post here as it goes with the freedom of the internet, please let her return.

As for the TLES, read her threads and investigate deeper....

Ok fair enough - I meant her posts in the Doghouse tbh. Am very glad she was helpful to you when your Mum was ill.
We will investigate TLES for sure.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:44

@HeresTheThingBooyhoo

I SUPPORT LIFTING THE BAN ON DBF

fair enough if she has had warnings for personal attacks, but this wasn't a personal attack. at least play by your own rules MNHQ. she didn't earn a ban for thsi and you know it. otherwise you wouldn't be suggesting lifting the ban if you get enough support for it from MNers.

How can "You are a liar, foolish and a disgrace, not just for what you are doing to this dog but for trying to discredit someone who works her arse off to save them. You appall me.." Not be classed as a personal attack Confused. Fraid it's a personal attack in my book.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:47

@WhereTheWildThingsWere

You know what MN, you created the sodding Doghouse, despite us all begging you not to.

When we just had Pets it was a far better section, a wider selection of posters and opinions and a generally nicer place to be.

You insisted on splitting it all up, you created it and now you are complaining that it has a got a little too polarized and shouty.

I cannot believe you would ban DBF, I am speechless, especially considering what it was over.

You haven't noticed anything untoward about TLES? Christ on a bike.

You may not have wanted it WTWTW but others did. We are not complaining we are DOING something. I haven't noticed anything about TLES but I'm sure Helen's team have, particularly if you've been reporting it - I don't see reports unless I'm alerted. I'm sure they've worked damm hard behind the scenes looking into it in fact, as they always do.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:50

@StewieGriffinsMom

Actually, Justine I know i emailed MNHQ several years back about TLES and MNHQ responded that they would investigate. I still remember what my concerns were so I can re-email them rather than posting on this thread.

Ok I've checked with the team and whilst there's some drama queenyness in there, there is nothing inconsistent.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:53

@SecretNutellaFix

Justine, so when exactly did telling the truth constitute a personal attack?

It's how you do it I think - there is an aggressive tone in the Doghouse that is off-putting to lots of posters.
They ask for advice and get a telling off. The words might make sense but the message is "You stupid Twat". You can be useful and even forthright without making people feel lousy.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:54

@WinterIsComing

Catherine? That's interesting.

Why was that HQ?

I shall find out and report back forthwith.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 20:59

@HeresTheThingBooyhoo

"How can "You are a liar, foolish and a disgrace, not just for what you are doing to this dog but for trying to discredit someone who works her arse off to save them. You appall me.." Not be classed as a personal attack . Fraid it's a personal attack in my book."

"You are a liar proven fact, foolish fact and a disgrace ok, opinion (unless you think TLES' behaviour WRT the dog was praiseworthy?), not just for what you are doing to this dog but for trying to discredit someone fact who works her arse off to save them. You appall me..fact" (she appalled me too)

NOT a personal attack.

Tis too!

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:03

@LoopyLoopsRootyFroots

Admit it Justine, you just don't like her, do you?

This flimsy 'personal attack' excuse just doesn't wash.

I don't like her posting style, from what I've seen of it - which admittedly might have been skewed towards the worst. Not overkeen on the general tone of holier-than-thouness in the Doghouse either. But I'd imagine DBF is smart and fun from what you've all said.
I actually think if folks can't see that her post was a personal attack then something's a bit amiss. You can argue that TLS deserved it because you think she was deliberately winding folks up, but you can't argue it wasn't a personal attack IMHO.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:05

@JustineMumsnet

[quote WinterIsComing] Catherine? That's interesting.

Why was that HQ?

I shall find out and report back forthwith.

[/quote]

Ah, have been alerted that a couple of trolls have come out to join in the bunfight. People maybe we should all take Wine we are attracting a bad crowd Wink.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:07

@Hullygully

I agree Justine

But weighing up one person's general usefulness against their occasional over forthrightness, perhaps deletion might be more appropriate? Get one of them unpaid interns to be a permanent doghouse monitor.

Maybe the first few times, but after warnings and a ban?
Think the monitor is a nice idea though - someone to quote the philosophy like in ye olden days. Any volunteers?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:10

@catgirl1976

Justine - please could she come back?

There is a lot of support for her and she has helped a lot of people.

Even my cats want her back......

Well, maybe, if she's prepared to be nice. But things have gotta change round here (the doghouse that is) you here? We need more understanding and a lovely board Ambassador like what Hully says.

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