To think that the way most parents approach toilet 'training' is strange?

[Curiouskay]

I have a DD who is 2.7 so I am not an expert on TT but what I see written in parenting books and from other mums around me doesn't strike me as the best way to approach this stage. For example, I was talking to a mum the other day who sat her child on the toilet every 20 minutes for a week or something like that. If you are constantly sitting a child, or asking 'do you need a wee wee little Johnny?' how will little Johnny work out the cues within his own body as to when he needs to go? It just comes over rather controlling and pushy for me. Are we training children on our timetable rather than theirs? And is giving chocolate as a reward for carrying out a normal bodily function not, well, a bit strange?

Like I said, I am not an expert, but I feel the current methods for TT don't sit right with me and I'd prefer to let my DD reach this important developmental milestone when she is ready. Have TT 'experts' convinced parents that this won't happen without their intervention?

I suppose I rate frequent enforced potty sitting just trying to "catch" something as a little weird, just because in my book, if you need to do that, they probably aren't ready anyway. And why do toilet train in any way that isn't strictly necessary? Though in early days I suggest every hour or so a toilet visit, and maybe some people think that's excessive hovering.

The one that always gets me is when people carry a potty around in public, because again, if tot can't hold it long enough to reach a proper toilet, they aren't ready at all in my book. And I can't deal with potties outside the house, really, especially other family's potties .

But to each their own. I can hide at the far end of Toddler group & pretend not to see it.

Marriedinwhite - that is encouraging to hear - re your child telling you they wanted pants and not nappy etc. This is what I am hoping for.

When I said 'naturally get the idea' I meant that we have discussed it, she has seen me and other use the toilet etc etc. She has used it quite a lot of times herself - we just haven't done cold turkey on nappies. I am not leaving her in a bubble expecting her to suddenly know what the toilet is for.

Ragged -You have summed up some of my thoughts here. I see many mums carrying a potty and it has made me doubt myself - is this what should be done? But like you say, my instinct is that they need to be able to recognise and hold on for the toilet.

Activate - thanks for your views. Sorry if I have offended you. I am a very thoughtful person and read a lot of books on parenting/ psychology and the emotional impact of the early years on children. I believe that the things that happen in the first 5 years make us the people we become and so with everything I do with my DD I want to question mainstream thinking and make sure it is 'right' for us.

Thanks everyone for your posts.

marriedinwhite - btw what do you mean by: 'lift her until she was 5' ?

YANBU, I don't get it either, why do so many people start panicing about forcing PTing from 2 yrs then wonder why there's multiple relapses and issues later! FGS let them work it out themselves and only worry about forcing it a bit if they're getting near school age!

I only took a potty out with me once during the first week of PT, because he was still getting the hang of it, and I wanted to go out to a barbeque. If I hadn't I would have been confined to the house most of the day, not much fun. I agree that they need to learn to warn you when they need to go, but it's a somewhat gradual process, and they go from having very little warning to having enough time to get to a toilet by practicing. For which they need to be very close to a potty/toilet. I agree it's pretty gross which is why I carried it in two bag for life bags and gave it a thorough wash after using!

DD1 just asked for knickers one day, (couple of months before she was 3) and then only had one accident, which was on Christmas day so totally understandable! We had attempted 'training' before then as she stopped peeing at night at 18mths but she wasn't having it and I wasn't going to cause battles.

We did Elimination Communication with DD2, we used nappies as back up until she was 12 mths for convenience (mostly because of long bus journeys) and she was able to tell us when she needed to go from 18mths, up until then it was me recognising the very distinctive dance!

I tried toilet training my Ds at about 2...was a disaster, so decided to wait a bit longer, then about 3 months before his 3rd birthday, while on holiday, he asked to go to the toilet, so he went and went fine after that, he would still ask for a nappy for poos for another 8 months or so, but then one day just asked to go to the toilet for a poo, and has been going fine ever since. He never had an accident once he had decided himself he wanted to go to the toilet.

So, I am doing the same with dd, who is 2.5, who has asked to go to the toilet when her brother has been going, but gets scared once she is sat on the toilet at the moment. She will get there eventually I figure.

I never trained mine the fulll time nursery they attended trained them, then when they were at home they went round the house naked and the potty was always in the room with them, no accidents took two weeks, they were trained at 2 years 3 months the optimum time according to the nursey which was council run.

YABU. Are you seriously judging a process you have no experience of?

see - my two peneth: I dislike the term 'training' relating to my toddler - she is not a puppy!

I have 3 kids and I NEVER did anything with potties, sticker charts, pullups etc etc - with all 3 I waited until the said 'no more nappies' and went to pants - all 3 had 2/3 accidents - DD3 has been dry for about 3 months now with 1 accident so far (she is 3 in 2 weeks)

I therefore never had to have the stress of bribing them to sit on potties or worry about them getting upset about it

My method - don;t do it - wait for them to want pants

Do it how you want to do it.
Do not judge others unless they are using the 'slap around the head with a stick until they get it right' method.

All methods lead to the same thing. Your way is no better or worse than any other.

One tip I would give after 5 DCs is buy the cheapest nappies possible when you are TT. Those expensive, comfy, super absorbant ones dont help a child know when they are wet.

£1.75 ones from Sainsburys are a much better idea.

One think I am absolutly certain of - there is no reason to be smug about toilet training.

I've toilet trained two so far and they were both different, perhaps it's different approaches for different children? I do think sometimes we can be inclined to start training too early, I did with my DD. Now I am more likely to leave it later and wait for them to ask than I am to do daytime potty at two, to daytime toilet, to night time dryness, and just go for it. I'd rather longer in nappies and quick training, than endless weeks of accidents.

I try not to judge daytime dry, night time in nappies children (not entirely successfully, I have to work at it), I know that there has to be some sort of chemical to stop wetting in your sleep and that is different for everyone and can develop quite late in some, but then one of my signs that the children are ready has been dry nappies at night.

I've also always started with naked on the bottom half, working up to pants, then trousers, then going out with cued toilet breaks, then letting them go it alone.

I guess what I am concluding from my own post is that actually there are lots of different routes to the same goal and that even though we might be inclined to disagree with how some people do it, actually it's different strokes for different folks.

impressed with how reasonable and logical I am tonight

I dont care how people do it but I am sick of people not waiting until their dc are ready, annoucing that they are trained at a very young age as if anyone really gives a shit and then going on to admit that they are having accidents all the time - then they're not trained are they.

This then goes on for months as they clearly weren't ready.

ime if you leave it later until they are ready its much less stressful and very quick.

Both my kids have taken to the toilet quite quickly, and that is only because I have put them in pants and asked them every 20 mins or so if they need the loo. If I forgot to be 'pushy' they would wee all over themselves. HTH

What on earth is wrong with asking if little Johnny wants a wee?? I still do that with DS1 who is nearly 6, as he is quite dreamy and likely to forget about such mundane things, or want to go at the most inconvenient time/place, so I ask him before we're going out or whatever whether he needs a wee. Ditto DS2.

And letting the whole process be child-led sounds nice in principle, but my DNephew was left to his own devices and wasn't out of nappies until after 4, and still in pull-ups at night for years after that - no SN or anything like that, just seemingly a bit lazy (SIL's own conclusion, I hasten to add).

I think that you can be parent-led on TT and still be sensitive to the child - one of the worst pieces of advice I think is that once you start, you don't go back. Poppycock. Why carry on with something that is upsetting or bewildering your DC, and that they aren't ready for? But sometimes you'll only know if they're ready by trying. DS2 was dry day and night at 2.5 - he did it so easily (pelvic floor like a steel trap, that one) that I paffed myself on the forehead for not having tried earlier. But if I had tried earlier, maybe he wouldn't have been ready.

Things that don't 'sit right' with me about parenting tend to be bigger issues - I wouldn't get very aerated about TT.

if they just got up one day and did it themselves it wouldn't be called "training". like reading, some dc will just pick it up by osmosis, but the majority will need a little gentle help and encouragement.

dd1 is in reception and the majority of her peers still need a very occasional prompt to use the loo, especially if they are immersed in a favourite activity.

I never read anywhere about taking them every 20 minutes. But then again tbh I didn't read any books from when DS was about 6 weeks - he wouldn't stick to the rules

I got lot's of different perspectives from people that had been there and decided to have a potty / loo seat out and just say 'oh you've done a wee/poo' when changing. From about 18 months DS would say wee/poo and decided himself on his 2nd birthday he didn't need nappies. However when out I use to put a pull up on over his pants - it was the only way I could get him to wear them! It took about 3 weeks to be dry out and about and 3 days at home. I still had many comments about 'doing it' too early but that was DS choice.

No 2 children are the same and what works for one may not work for others. DS didn't need a reward because he wanted to do it but I think if a child needs positive encouragement then theres nothing wrong with it imo.

So I don't think YBTotallyU but maybe a little judgy.

"why do so many people start panicing about forcing PTing from 2 yrs then wonder why there's multiple relapses and issues later!"

..because in actual fact forcing is not involved...nor necessarily are relapses/issues. you haven't tried it have you?

Nothing wrong at all with asking a child if they need a wee. Makes sense to give them a reminder to listen to their body when they are probably too busy listening to CBeebies/playing with lego/reading a book/running around the garden etc.

What is counterproductive is putting them on the potty or toilet every 20-30 minutes - that means you're just going to catch the wee or poo sooner or later and you aren't actually helping the child recognise the feeling of a full bladder or bowel and then responding accordingly.

And those of us with children with medical or special needs should understand that the normal rules don't apply - you have to approach toilet training in a different way usually and use whatever method works for that child, and at whatever age the child is ready.

I stopped toilet training my daughter, she cracked it really quickly, then over the weeks relapsed as it wasn't fresh and exciting, then began to use it as a tool towards world domination parental control just in the run up to Christmas, when all things stressful were occuring and it just seeming like the easiest thing to do was stop for a few months, start again and see if she was ready then. She was fine when I tried the second time, little bit resistant, mostly for the attention it go her, but was dry day and night quite quickly... I used to think start after they turn two, but now I am more inclined to leave it later... my aim tends to be dry for nursery.

"..because in actual fact forcing is not involved...nor necessarily are relapses/issues"

I don't understand, you seem to disagree with me but the above is agreeing with me

where it isn't forced before the child is ready there's less issues and relapses. what's the rush?, it NEVER seems to work if its rushed, only temporary victories but not the war

well none of it worked with my DS and so i stopped and stopped stressing. He was actually 2yrs 10 months when (I didn't know until i found the full nappy on the toilet floor) he just took his nappy off after being out shopping in town all day with me and my Mum and took himself off to the toilet (he has verbal dyspraxia so at that point could not utter a word either) and from then on, no nappies, day or night - a complete and utter shock! Not bragging by the way, I found it amazing as i wet the bed until 14 so i was quite prepared for night time issues. he is just 4 now and not been in a nappy since

having tt three of them, I fully advocate letting them run around naked as much as possible from as young as possible before attempting to get them to use a potty.

Every time they wee talk about it and mention a potty, and have one about. Then when they have a few successes on the potty I would spend a day giving them loads of drinks and keep putting on the potty very regularly til they start asking to do it/holding on til they are put on potty.

only a couple of days with mine, all slightly different ages (between 2 and 2 and a half),

if you leave it too long it can become a big issue, and a waste of time no nappies is a dream of mine (one to go!)

I agree that sitting kids on the toilet every 20 mins or whatever isn't teaching them when to go. In the very early days I did try and encourage sitting on the potty a lot in the hope of catching something just so I could do the massive over-the-top round of applause thing. But once she had the idea I wanted her to realise she needed to go and take herself.
I disagree on the reward thing though, although we used raisins rather than chocolate. If you have a child who loves their food I can tell you it works very well. It's also great for when they get a bit older and have a bit of a regression when they think they can hold it in forever and have little leaks. The incentive of a raisin/chocolate/sticker is a lot more effective than the incentive of dry pants for some kids ime.

Oh and I agree that there's nothing wrong with asking them if they need to go. I often do this when out if I know we are about to get on the bus or not be able to use the toilet for a bit. It's just sensible in my view. And they still make the decision for themselves whether they feel the need to go or not so it does no harm imo.