To ask you what's in your Will?

[AblativeAbsolute]

Sorry, I know this is a really personal area, but I feel like I need a bit of help (not legal advice per se, just learning from others). DH and I are finally getting round to making a Will, now that we've 'completed our family' (we have two young children - 4 and 1 - and are not planning any more). The lawyer has given us a massive form to fill in, and most of it is fairly easy - but the bit we're agonising over is who to appoint as guardians if we should both die. The only real options are either set of GPs or my sister (who has two young children of her own). My initial instinct was the GPs, on the basis that: they're emotionally closer to the children at the moment; they have plenty of house space and available time (and money, in one case); they are utterly devoted to the boys, and would do all in their power to make them happy. However..... The more I think about it, the more I think that there are downsides, mainly: by the time the kids are older teenagers, the GPs will be nearly in their 80s; they're relatively 'out of touch' (ie I struggle to imagine them negotiating the UCAS process in 15 years time, or understanding the kind of things kids are into these days); and, although they adore the kids and vice versa, their upbringing wouldn't be terribly 'normal'. Plus, of course, choosing one set of GPs over the other may cause fairly serious offence to the others... But nominating my sister has downsides too. She's less close to the boys at the moment (only because she doesn't see them quite so often, and isn't in the 'devoted granny' role), and the transition would probably be harder for the boys in the short term; she already has two children to look after, and taking on two more would be a serious ask, as well as requiring probably a new house, new car etc (and she's not particularly well off). But - she and her husband are great parents and, in the long term, the boys would have a more 'normal' upbringing.

Obviously nobody can make this decision except us - but I'm just interested to hear if other people have been though this sort of thought process, and how you made such a difficult decision. So, sorry for intruding, but if you're willing to share your experiences, I'd be very grateful!

Wasn't October will aid month? I thought I'd missed it.

mutually binding irrevocable wills

I've never heard of those. is it the same as a will trust? (now off to google)

I mention to our solicitor that I wanted to put a caveat on a bequest to a cousin that he has a good piss up with the money and was told that I watched too many soap operas and you cant stipulate what the money is for, you can make a bequest but not dictate how it is spent.

@ katie

SIL is actually a very nice person. BIL is a bit . For all I know there might have been a clause in the mortgage or indeed it may have been more financialy beneficial for him to remain cared for by the state than have money of his own. I always got the impression it was a just all a bit shady and BIL had a hand in it

It's not the same as a "will trust". That is where money left in your will is held in trust rather than given absolutely. We have that too, as we each have a life interest in the money left to the children (i.e. it is held on trust for the life of the survivor).

Our solicitor did try to talk us out of the mutually binding wills thing as it is not very common and it is inflexible in terms of future families etc. Most people just have mirror wills, i.e. they are the same, but aren't mutually binding. However we were both adamant we wanted everything tied up for our kids really tightly. Like you, we've got a bad example in the family.

It is critical that you get your solicitor to properly document that they have advised you fully on mutually binding wills, and that you are aware of the consequences, as in the event of a dispute over your intention when making the will, if your intention is not clearly for the wills to be mutually binding, then they may well not be interpreted as such. Basically, it is a contract between the two of you not to change your will. When you are both alive, any one of you can change their will, but not once one of the contracting parties dies.

Other people's families... there really is nothing odder. Except your own

The partner of a friend of mine recently had a brain haemmorage and is just slightly above vegetative. He's lovely, but not the most naturally paternal person in the world (an intellectual and a gambler). His partner has lost touch with her family, his family are very elderly and their DD is now fairly isolated.

It's good to hear so many people leaving guardianship to several friends/family members. That's what I would like to do - have a group of sensible people make the final decision about who they live with if it all went pearshaped. I think I will do that even if father survives - I do trust him to do the right thing, but I think the children will need a team of trustworthy people around to ensure their lives follow the right path. He's not a bad father, but he just doesn't 'get' so many of the issues that are important to children.

OP - DH and I had exactly the same pros and cons list as you about making either my parents or his parents guardian of our 3 children. In the end we decided the cons outweighed the pros.

We each have a brother but they are not an option for various reasons.

So we asked a couple who we have been friends with for many years. They have 2 young children and a similar parenting style to us. They have put us in their wills too, which I think is quite important - so if they feel daunted by the idea of taking on 3 kids who aren't theirs, they will remember that we would have done the same for them.

Simply put, my sister gets the DCs if DP and I kick the bucket. In the event she died before DP and I, and the DCs still needed guardians, I'm not sure. I think it's too much to ask of my mum who is in her late 60s, and there's no one else on my side of the family who I would really trust to raise the DCs.

WRT to DP's side of the family, they are all lovely, but I don't think any of them would really be in a position to effectively parent my DCs as DP and I would wish.

So in short, my sister better not die anytime soon or we're all screwed.

I think it is important to cover every eventuality. I knwo the liklihood is minute of an entire family being wiped out - but look at that awful pile up on the M5 a few days ago or the French flight that dropped out of the sky - it can happen.

FWIW my step sister ( my age) and my step-mum get the chore delightful task of the upbringing of my children. They aren't particularly well known to the children, infact the youngest has never met them because they live abroad. But it's about trust.

A panel of friends will act as executors and continue to oversee things.

In the event we all get wiped out in a puff of smoke, the money goes to a mutual friend. That actually reminds me, we need to rework that aspect of our will because she is very very wealthy and I dont particularly like her remaining god-children (so Im not having them have it by default!).

BIL certainly isnt getting a penny.

I think somebody else briefly referred to it but most people don't realise that in the event of the whole family being wiped out and there is no will provision except for the children and for example the wife dies minutes before the husband, the husband inherits from the wife and all of the assets would then be distributed to his next of kin and the wifes family would get nothing. It is the order of dying that is important.

In fact if the adults are killed simultaneously the law assumes that the younger outlives the older - which is a sensible solution - so in most cases the wife's family take all because wives are commonly younger than husbands. A properly drawn will divides the assets as the adults would wish. Since most mortgages are covered by insurance and paid off on sudden death it's important to get it right. The last thing you want in the wake of a tragedy is two lots of rellies squabbling over money - if they disagree over children that's another matter but at least you can put the money side beyond doubt.

Thank you all again. As usual, I rely on MN to solve my difficulties for me. Makes me think - maybe I should appoint the entire MN community as my panel of executors . Some aspects of our situation are easy - e.g. the whole family is on good terms, and there aren't too many of us! So if we all got wiped out, then the money would be divided in equal shares between my parents, his parents, my sister and his brother (plus a bit to a couple of charities, probably). It's just this guardian thing, really (plus we need to choose executors - hadn't thought of a panel of friends, which is an interesting idea).

One other technical question (seeing as some of you seem to be remarkably well-informed) - re life insurance. We've got a policy specifically to cover our mortgage, so it pays out a decreasing amount as time goes on. The Will form asks us to write down how much it's worth - but how do we do that, when the amount it would pay out is changing all the time ?

Yes you should stipulate in your will that the guardianship of your children should be decided by AIBU thread

Can you imagine the bun fight?

You put it's a decreasing term cover, the amount of the term and how much is left to go on it.

You may decide you want to take out an extra, fixed term policy or an income policy. Legal and General used to do a Family Income Protection Policy that paid out a fixed amount for a set number of years and was often cheaper than life cover. You might want to take one out that will pay for the children's daily needs until they are 18, 21 or 25yo or similar. Other companies do similar policies.

I want to go tangent on this thread reamins fearful of being accused of starting a thread about a thread

More of a WWYD?

My children arent yet adult. Our bricks and mortar assets are quite large.As are insurances.

However I have one son who, will quite likely remain, just a little bit workshyunlike the other two who do have work ethic.

Would you do straight 1/3rds - or would you do something like pay off one childs uni fees, then divi up the remainder into equal 1/3rds?

I really dont like the thought of giving a large amount of money to someone who will squander it on xbox games and fags.

Gosh that makes me so sound awful

You should possibly think about putting all/part of it in trust to provide an income then it can't be squandered as quickly.

That said, people change hugely. They may be very different in a few years time. FWIW I would probably specify the guardians should apportion as they see fit and maybe leave a letter of wishes (ie that they should all have the opportunity to go to university etc) and leave it up to them or I would have it split equally but with provision about when they could get their hot little hands on the cash (ie not until they're all 25yo or putting 60% of it in trust to provide an income).

Speak to a good solicitor who deals in wills and probate. They will advise.

I am a single parent by choice so DS has no dad to consider. My sister and her husband are legal guardians with all the money from my estate held in trust with my solicitor administering it. He will release funds to pay for DS's care. The balance will be released to DS when he turns 21 or at 18 if my sister and her DH feel that he is unlikely to piss the whole lot up the wall :o

My Sister and her husband, along with DS's Godfather, have been appointed legal guardians. (We, and DS's Godfather live in London; DSis and BIL live in the country.) Godfather will never have his own children, adores DS. DSis and BIL plan to have a large family and love DS - and I am confident that they would bring DS up as their own, should anything happen to us. I'm equally confident that his Godfather would bring him up very well. If anything happens to us, they will decide between them what would be best - for him to grow up in the country with his cousins, or to stay in London at his then school and with his one day friends - I imagine that it will depend a little on his age as to what the outcome might (hopefully never) be (for instance, let's say it's the middle of his GCSEs/ A Levels - option two might be preferable to option one). Our estate will be left in trust for him, and our wishes (we would prefer our house to be rented out rather than sold, thus providing income to raise him and leaving DS with a house when he reaches adulthood; educational preferences etc.) have been made known and written down. However, they are just that, wishes, and I trust all three guardians to make the right decision, depending on what DS needs at the time.
Hope that helps.

We had our will made up by a will-making company, not a solicitor (this is perfectly legitimate - my DH is a solicitor - different area of law, and checked it out). Was half the price of a solicitor.

The guy came to our house and talked us through everything in a very clear and concise way, so don't worry too much about the form s/he should go through everything with you

Re: the question of guardianship - we put my mum, and in the even of her being incapacitated, my BIL

Sorry, forgot to say, Will Aid is this month, and is the reason we've finally got round to it (not just because it's cheaper, but because it's given us the impetus to do it).

I haven't got a will, as I don't own any property and I only have £1000 in savings. Not a lot to show really for almost 34 years on this planet .

We need to update ours.

Both boys would be going to SIL who is childfree but address them. Our families would help her to cope.

The money will be handled by my MIL, we have assets and life insurance policies enough that the boys wouldn't need to suffer any real lifestyle changes. One would more than clear the mortgage and the other would cover their expenses until adulthood.

In your situation, I would go with the sister option.

Trois- I agree with putting the money into trust, and anything left after paying for "proper" things like uni fees could then be divided out between them.

On the life insurances point, we have separate cover. A lot of policies are joint - i.e. they only pay out on the first death. You'd think single policies would be twice as expensive, but no, it's actually only a tiny bit more a month (we did a lot of shopping around). And in the event of us both going unexpectedly, I'd like to leave my kids well taken care of.

It's also fixed cover for a fixed term, not decreasing. Again, not actually much more money (literally £1 or £2) and again if we both go I'd like my children to be secure. Hell, they will be better off if we do go!!

If you're going to stick with your policy, I'd put on the will form the value of the policy when you took it out with a note that it is decreasing term.

All in trust of course, so no fags and Xboxing.

It is will aid month, and also anyone in one of the big unions should be able to get a deal via the union.

Rainbow - you might not have much now, but bear in mind you might when you die, and the nature of death is usually that you don't know beforehand when its coming, so you won't be able to sit down the day before and sort out what you have then!!