To think that lawyers should not charge by the hour?

[DMAGA]

I have recently been represented in an unfair dismissal case by a firm of lawyers who told me that they could help me and then did f* all. The partner charged £400 per hour, his assistant £250 per hour, the consultant £350 per hour and then I was charged for all of them having 'discussions' about my case. They ran up a bill of £200k without achieving anything and, because my case was in the Employment Tribunal, the Tribunal would not have awarded me my costs even if the matter had gone ahead to trial and i had won (which would have cost me another £300k). In the end, I sacked them and reached a satisfactory agreement with my employer on my own, but all of my settlement monies have been spent on paying my lawyers. What other jobs are remunerated by the hour which means, in effect, the more inefficient you are and the longer you take to do the job, the more you will get paid. It's bonkers, isn't it? Does anyone actually like lawyers? Don't they just thrive on other people's misfortunes?

YANBU about the cost - who on earth did you use? I used an employment lawyer recently who is fairly well known (has won awards) at a very well established law firm which works with claimants mostly. She charged £295 per hour and got her trainee involved as far as she could to keep costs down. With her help we got a settlement of 2.5 times my annual salary for pregnancy discrimination and bullying and H&S failures. I did look at no win no fee arrangement solicitors for my case but decided that I wasn't confident with the quality and was very happy to use the firm I found. £200k does sound extortionate but it would depend on the complexity of the case do difficult to tell - but good news that the LCS agree with you.

YABU about all lawyers though - the ones you used don't sound at all good tbh but writing off a whole trade/industry sector is unreasonable

Sorry you feel you had a bad experience, but please don't make sweeping statements. Most of us are quite normal, nice, and care a lot about our job and our clients.

I can see why you are upset but don't agree with lawyer bashing (am not one). That is a lot of fees . Agree that negotiate a fee estimate up front - obviously if things sre outside this it will be more but lawyers should discuss this with at it,e. ask for itemised bill. And if fees an issue use a cheaper firm,

How long did you actually use lawyers for ?

I get the impression that i am not only outnumbered here but also the lack of sympathy/understanding is hard to comprehend. I have the temerity to criticise my lawyers for a s* service, upheld by the LCS, and yet i am being lambasted as unreasonable, lying. client from hell etc. I am afraid that all of my impressions about greedy and unsympathetic lawyers are being reinforced by the responses here (all of which appear to have been written by lawyers). Please tell me that i am not being unreasonable and that i am not the only client to have been 'ripped off'.

You come across as overtly hostile in your attitude to lawyers. I presume you knew the charge out rates when you signed up with them and you must have known after a time that these would have been adding up and didn't question that until you were presented with a £200k bill.
I am a professional (not a lawyer) and on some jobs we do charge by the hour but also fixed costs. On nearly every job clients or outside influences change the goal posts but clients never want to pay more. As long as they are honest about costs as you go along there is no reason why paying by hour is not a fair way of working. As a professional you are bound by ethics (and usually professional practice codes) to work fairly that the guy down the garage or shop isn't. Which is why you can seek redress if you are unfairly treated.

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't think you are coming across very well.

Dmaga - it's called Aibu not "please tell me Aibu" . And I (and lots of people) who posted aren't lawyers so that's a pretty daft assertion I make

Also a lot of people me included have said fee sounded high and sounds like there were things handled poorly so if you had Said Aibu to be fed up with service I got for cash , I would have probably said yanbu. But I don't agree re charging by hour nor with some of the more blanket assertions you have made on here.

Should have said "please tell em yanbu" not Aibu

Sorry if I have upset anyone or if you think i am being unreasonable. I just feel that my lawyers let me down when i needed them to be on my side.

DMAGA, I have some sympathy because I have received brilliant service on an employment issue. You manifestly did not.
I was made redundant when the company I worked for was acquired by a multi-national. I had a 12 month notice period. For various reasons (caused by the acquiring company) I could not mitigate their exposure. They did not agree.
I went to a top(ish) City firm of solicitors with my paperwork . Half way through the initial consultation the partner said "this is likely to end up with counsel - because it's untypical and potentially contentious- so why don't we cut out the middle man (him) and go straight to Nicholas XYZ, QC." He called the QC's clerk. QC had just settled a case out of court and could see us in 2 hours if we faxed over the paperwork.
Went to QC for a con. After just 30 mins of reading he had understood the issues immediately. He and solicitor discussed case law very prettily for 30 mins and settled on a strategy - a letter to my new employers based on principles A,B,C.
The new employers (using Slaughter & May) capitulated immediately and paid me out in full.
New "employers" also paid my fees. They were 2 hours of counsel (£2,000) and 4 hours of solicitor (£1,600). The solicitor later told me that he could legitimately have charged me at least £6,000 for research before going to counsel.

How did costs go from an estimated 15k to 200k? That's insane. They must have sent an interim bill, or informed you of spiralling costs, surely?? Check your initial letter.

My barrister said that they needed to apply for disclosure of 'comparators' immediately but they didn't do it. They didn't pass on letters form my employer. They didn't go for mediation, which i wanted to do. it was sorted out and it could have been sorted out more quickly. Sorry if I seem hostile, but it's a lot of money. I suppose I could have dispensed with their services sooner - and should have done - but i was depressed and i relied on them.

Still don't get it though. If what you say is true (not a lawyer but know a hell of a lot about the profession), from what you are saying they didn't give you any renewed fee estimates between £15k and £200k. The hourly rates you have been quoted are not a small high street, but a big firm. That sounds dodgy - the firm has been acting beyond what estimates you agreed which they should not do. Not saying you are lying on this thread, but find it really hard to believe that a firm would rack up an additional £185k more than you agreed!!

What was the nature of the complaint to the LSC?

Further, many different service industries charge by the hour, including plumbers and electricians. Should they stop too? Same principal if you ask me!

Are you in Scotland? I assume so by the reference to the Law Society of Scotland. If so, and if you feel you were overcharged, you need to ask for the account to be taxed. It willbe looked at independently.

Incidentally, the 3 month rule is the law, they were right on that.

What a load of hooey.

I think you're not being truthful.

200k on an unfair dismissal case? And you WON that much in settlement just to cover the costs? Quite unlikely.

My mother is a QC and handles "big" corporate cases, I doubt she'd over estimate a cost of clients' case by 185 grand!

thank you all - as I have said, i have obtained redress through the LCS and the insurers, so probably no need to moan any more. I guess I was just wondering if anybody else had such a bad experience with their lawyers.

I think unfortunately that a lot of people think a lawyer's job is to (as you put it) 'fight their corner' like in some low-budget TV drama.

The reality is that your lawyer's job is to advise you accurately and help you decide how you want to proceed. Sometimes your lawyer will have to tell you things you don't want to hear, and give you advice that may include telling you that you don't have a case, or don't have a strong case, or that you are very likely to lose.

£200k for an employment claim is a phenomenal amount of money - plus another £300k to take it to tribunal? I don't believe you.

My solicitor charges £50 for a fucking phone call.

I'm a lawyer but work in house and instruct external law firms as needed. The standard varies hugely. I've had to dis-instruct and move cases because of poor quality work. I've also seen a huge disparity on fees for similar work. I don't do employment law so can't comment but I have seen cases where one firm has charged ten times another for similar work, similar facts and similar outcome. Needless to say the high charging firm won't be getting more work. Not because of the high charging per se but more because of their failure to advise and be effective.

god I hate it when people 'don't like lawyers in general'. Lawyers aren't 'general' they are millions of individuals, every one different, it's lazy to generalise.

Look, I am sorry if i have upset some people here. i can assure you that my bill was £200k for acting for me for 9 months and that the matter was scheduled for a 4 week trial which would have cost at least another £300k. i can see that I am coming across as a bit of a fool here for having paid them for so long. however, i can assure you that pay them I did and of course I now regret it.

I would have charged you a lot less! You don't need a lawyer to represent you at an employment tribunal. You can do it yourself or use an employment law/HR Consultant.

The maximum award is less than you have been billed.