parents who tell their children about Santa are liars. AIBU to find this statement a bit harsh?

[Branno]

A woman at school said that she could not look her children in the eye if she told them about Santa and encouraged the myth. Parents who do are liars according to her. I asked her if she did not think it was a bit harsh (the liar bit) and she said no, because they are.
So, AIBU to find that statement a bit hash?

I loved the idea of Santa as a child coming into the house and leaving presents, didn't upset me at all.

well that's grand for you Duckd, but I find enough magic in the real world without inventing generous burglars so I'm imagining that will be what we'll give to DD

Is it Terry Pratchett who had the idea of anti-crimes such as "breaking and decorating"?

Oh dont be so daft about "inventing burglars" for goodness sake! And there always always room for more magic in the real world!!

I agree with the other mother's sentiment, but it is indeed a harsh way to express it. I've never done Santa, was never brought up with it and find some families can be a bit weirdly over the top, but I wouldn't go around telling other people that they were 'lying' to their children. I'd happily say here that it's all a myth/bunch of fibs though. Mostly I do the equivalent of 'oh yes' and move on, or I might say 'we don't do FC' and leave it at that.

Otherwise I suspect I'm probably quite like that other mum because I like giving explanations of how the world works, and when my children were asking 'why' I wanted to share my knowledge (such that I had!). I would have felt very odd giving them a more fluffy response because that's not the sort of person I am. My children had a very healthy sense of fantasy and we read lots of fantastical books, but I never wanted them to think (for example) that the Gruffalo was real. They had imaginary friends and spent a huge amount of time playing 'lets pretend' and we have created some fairly silly family myths from time to time. But they have known perfectly well that they were pretend because they were a part of creating them.

To me Santa doesn't fit into the family magic category because it's mainly a commercial creation. Yes there are some interesting root myths, but it's all a bit of an industry now, and it' not one I ever felt a need to be a part of. But then I didn't growing up knowing anyone who made a big deal of Santa, and I've never in any way felt I missed out on my parents not doing it (and yes of course they loved us, very much, and we had fantastic Christmases and still do). Plus I feel a bit embarrassed watching some other parents tying themselves into knots trying to keep their skeptical child in line with the belief, and I really don't understand why they think it is so very important.

I like your solution PrettyCandles, one of the reasons I dislike the FC/Santa stuff is that to me it seems very wrong to have presents with no reciprocation or thank yous. I really do believe that the giving of gifts should be at least as important as the getting, if not more.

peanuts to it, I can't abide all that fluffy foo foo crap. The world is magic, real magic and I'm going to spend any of my time bullshitting kids.

Presumably you won't be bullshitting them with stuff like "this won't hurt" either then.

"of course everything will be OK"
"of course Child A likes you"
"I'll always be here"

And 101 other lies to tell children.

What you call "bullshitting" carefullyairbrushed I call having magical fun.

no I wont soupdragon, it's NMS. Fifteen years of working with kids I didn't BS them and I wont start now with my DD. I'm quite capable of drinking imaginary tea and having fun, but I don't think it's the same thing.

you can call it anything you like duckdodgers, I wont be joining in,

Real life is underrated it seems

Well, you won't be able to tell them the imaginary tea is delicious because that would be lying.

No-one has asked you to "join in" though have they

I don't do father Christmas with my children either. Nonsense.

Of course telling a child about Father Christmas is lying.

But show me the person who says they have never lied and I'll show you a liar .

We all lie, of course we do. Didn't the research showed that men tell on average 6 lies per day and women 3?

Apologies for the terrible Daily Mail link: but according to some research these are the most common lies:

Top ten lies men tell:

1. Nothing's wrong, I'm fine
2. This will be my last pint
3. No, your bum doesn't look big in that
4. I had no signal
5. My battery died
6. Sorry, I missed your call
7. I didn't have that much to drink
8. I'm on my way
9. It wasn't that expensive

10. I'm stuck in traffic

Top ten lies women tell:

1. Nothing's wrong, I'm fine
2. Oh, this isn't new, I've had it ages
3. It wasn't that expensive
4. It was in the sale
5. I'm on my way
6. I don't know where it is, I haven't touched it
7. I didn't have that much to drink
8. I've got a headache
9. No, I didn't throw it away

10. Sorry, I missed your call

So Father Christmas is another one to add to the list. So what? shrugs.

Well, I've read this thread and seen both points of view, but have still come to the conclusion that the anti Father Christmas brigade are a bunch of miserable, people with absolutely no imagination.

I agree LadyBeagle.

I'm absolutely fine with it being called a lie. Not all lies are bad. Some lies are fun. For example I invited a load of dd's friends to Pizza Hut to celebrate her birthday the other month. When she asked me who was going I lied and said just me, her dad and her brother. Her little face was a picture when she walked in and saw all of her friends and afterwards she told me that she loved the surprise. I'm glad I'm not puritanical about lying otherwise she would have been denied the additional fun of it being a surprise.
I do feel sorry for kids of never-lying parents though when they ask if their ears really DO stick out or if they are just as clever as their high-achieving friend etc.

Being entirely honest with your DCs would be very hurtful to them.

We all use white lies to be kind.

Terry Pratchett explained it beautifully:

Death: Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
Susan: With tooth fairies? Hogfathers?
Death: Yes. As practice, you have to start out learning to believe the little lies.
Susan: So we can believe the big ones?
Death: Yes. Justice, mercy, duty. That sort of thing.
Susan: They're not the same at all.
Death: You think so? Then take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder, and sieve it through the finest sieve, and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet, you try to act as if there is some ideal order in the world. As if there is some, some rightness in the universe, by which it may be judged.
Susan: But people have got to believe that, or what's the point?
Death: You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?

edam - perfect quote, thanks for adding that.

Fantasy and imagination are important in children's cognitive development and should be encouraged. So even if you don't tell your children about Santa you do need to find other ways to encourage their imaginations. Only allowing your children to deal in the factual and rational is actually quite limiting.

This is a really interesting article, if you are interested.

An interesting article. I wonder how those who stick to the 'truth' cope with an imaginitive DC. When they come into the kitchen and want a drink of water for their imaginary friend do they play along or do they say 'don't be silly?' If they come in as a pirate captain do they respond in role or have to make it perfectly clear that it is 'Amy, pretending to be a pirate captain' before they start. Is Amy telling lies if she happens to be a pirate captain?

I think that all DCs need fantasy, and they (if allowed to) know the difference-unlike miserable, unimaginative parents who have to point out that the old man with whiskers in red isn't real, instead of letting them find out for themselves that it is a lovely game of make believe.

A good quote edam.

I find Terry Pratchett's novels a pretty good guide to real life...

Me too, edam. TP is a very deep thinker, I feel. I love his stuff.

I loved when DS would suggest that we had lions and giraffes etc. running alongside our car when we drove through bush areas - and was very sad when he stopped for a while - but he has started again now and I am very happy! I love his imaginings, I love watching him play and the stories he makes up.
I won't be stomping on any of his imaginings any time soon, if ever.

It occurred to me yesterday that I never actually told my children that a fat man in a red suit delivers their presents. I just never told them that he didn't. They have absorbed the belief and I've played along with it.