parents who tell their children about Santa are liars. AIBU to find this statement a bit harsh?

[Branno]

A woman at school said that she could not look her children in the eye if she told them about Santa and encouraged the myth. Parents who do are liars according to her. I asked her if she did not think it was a bit harsh (the liar bit) and she said no, because they are.
So, AIBU to find that statement a bit hash?

People who call it a lie in a very harsh way are basically a bit thick. An inability to distinguish between make-believe and 'LIES, DAMN LIES' is the sign of someone not very good at thinking IMO. Calling it a lie in a shrug of the shoulders 'yes of course it's not objectively true but it's fun' isn't quite the same thing, of course.

First came across this very literal, puritanical view of the world when I read Anne of Green Gables - her Aunt's friend Rachel refuses to read novels 'because they are full of lies'.

A good point ThisIsANickname-what is gained?

edam you have said what I as thinking before I came to this last page. The difference between lies and make believe for fun is HUGE. If am adult cannot distingish between them how can a child?

Lie is often used now when mistake would be more appropriate - even DH does it - grrrrrr. 'You're lying', he'll say when what he means is You've made a mistake got that wrong.

The Devaluation of Lying - discuss

oh, 2old. Poor poor man! He must have wanted to die!

We decided not to try and convince our daughter (3) that Santa brings presents to our house.
I remember asking a string of questions about him when I was her age and my mother inventing a more and more elaborate web of mythos to answer them. (magic key, can stop time, omnipotent knowledge)
Reading Dawkins just solidified my resolve on this issue.
I am looking forward to the best Christmas ever with my family this year. I don't belive for one second that her enjoyment would be enhanced by supernatural convictions.

Really nerf? You think that her parents buying her stuff (which I assume you do all year) would be as special to her as Santa bringing it. Well I suppose she's known no different.
My mum told me Santa had a magic key - is that bad? I don't feel betrayed or mentally scarred by it.

That's the thing about Dawkins, he doesn't half give atheists a bad name. Miserable, ironically puritanical, argumentative git. Science is full of so much amazing, wonderful stuff and Dawkins reduces it all down to bad temper and intolerance.

I have a big problem with the Santa thing. DS1 is 6, and so far I've gone along with it as I feel I ought to. But his questions become increasingly hard to answer. None of this "enjoying the magic" stuff for my DS. He wants to know EXACTLY how Santa does what he does, and numerous other details. It's getting harder and harder to be vague, and I really don't want to tie myself in knots inventing a complex web of myths. Often DS asks me outright if Santa exists, and I mumble something like "who knows". I will be hugely relieved when he reaches an age when most kids know the truth, and I can drop this act which really doesn't feel right to me.

last year my DS and a few of his friend were discussing Santa. I am clinging on to the magic of Christmas like an addict to the last dregs of their poison, so when the other little shits darlings told my son that it was just parents who did the pressies I let them in on a secret...

When Father Christmas first started delivering his pressies there were considerably less people in the world however, what with the increase in population and all, he now drops off some pressies a couple of nights early so parents can help him out by putting them out on his behalf.

I have no problems with spinning a yarn for the sake of another year of childhood. My DS is now 9 so this will be the last sob

Even though technically she's correct YANBU to think she's a miserable so and so.

Our ds is nearly 8 and is starting to question, has been really for the past year, so I think this is his last year. However, we tell the kids that Santa gets everything but that he sends us the bill for the presents (just like the credit card!) so this means we can rein them in from wanting ludicrously expensive stuff. Also in our house Santa presents aren't wrapped up but most of their friends' are, so I told them that's because I'm too stingy to pay the extra charge. LOL!

Oops, meant to say that we say that Santa gets everything that we pay for. Presents from other family and friends are clearly from the people who bought them, I don't go for the whole Santa gets absolutely everything version.

I remember when my DD1 (now 10) was little, asking my DP whether we were going to go down the Father Christmas myth route. We decided to as it was 'the done thing' and yes, they get very excited. I've always kept a few gifts to be given from us as one year I forgot to and my DDs opened all their sack gifts, then asked where the presents were from us. Oops.

The only time I ever regretted it was the year that DD1 had a full meltdown as she had pretty much worked out that he wasn't real, but hadn't had her suspicions confirmed. When she was finally told, she did question why we had lied (her words) to her.

She happily supports the myth so as not to spoil it for her sister though.

I think that if you go on the NORAD Santa tracking site here (but nothing to see yet) on Christmas Eve and watch him start off over in Australia etc it ispretty impressive. I always look, my DCs are long past believing but I think that everyone needs magic in their lives-particularly those who don't understand it and manage to bring Dawkins into it! Science is pretty exciting and amazing-why put it in unreadable books?

Believing in Santa has practical benefits besides presents. A friend was so intrigued by the Santa story that he and his brother used to set elaborate 'Santa Traps' with alarms, bits of string, pulleys etc. Think 'Wallace and Grommit'. Mysteriously, all trapping attempts failed, but both brothers went on to very eminent careers in engineering.

It makes DCs question things from a young age-it must be good. Much better than just accepting everything your parents tell you. It shows that you can have a mind of your own.
I was very impresssed with the 3 yr old whose parents were so literal that they were not going to have 'lies', she happened to be a very imaginitive DC (completely out of step with them), and she simply didn't believe them! She had her Santa myth despite them-good for her!

Santa - the anagram of Satan...Mawahahahahaha!

Seriously though, how many children have believed in FC over the years? I'm pretty sure most of them are socially functioning adults.

You going to start on the bloody tooth fairy next OP? Where does the madness end?

You could argue that Father Christmas is real to some degree. It's just that he's not a genial man in a red suit who delivers presents by reindeer, he is a parent moving heaven and earth to make their child's Christmas magical.

By jumping through all the hoops of our own traditions (magic reindeer food, cookies, carrots and magically appearing presents etc) aren't we being Santa?

I'm a veteran of too many of these MN debates!

I suppose my children are the little horrors that go around telling everyone else that FC/Santa Claus isn't real. I tell DC not to correct others, but the debate erupts anyway.

I have "done" the tooth fairy, though hypocrite, I know

"Father Christmas is the personification of such joy and so many wonderful ideals that I wonder what is gained by the people who so passionately oppose the perpetuation of the myth?"

Exactly. Wtf is wrong with some people these days that they come across as so misery orientated that they cant see its a little bit of believing in magic and fun for children - before they grow up and have to be adults in the world? Its not lying - its about creating magic and memories for our children. And yes no doubt some misery guts is going to come on now and say they dont need the myth of Santa to bring magic to their childs Christmas - fine thats your choice.......since they have never "did" Santa then for their kids they will have no idea. But I have many many times and I know its all part fo the magic.

Im quite sad when they stop believing (DS18 stopped a long time ago, DS9 still believes and so does DS3 whos 3) - Christmas is still special of course - that doesnt change!

I have never met a child (or adult) who minded being lied to about Father Christmas.

I appreciated the fact that I had adults in my life who tried so hard to make the world a magical place for me. Awww.

I think that there are far, far, far more adults who appreciate that they were loved enough for parents to make them special and Christmas magical, than adults who think they were lied to. I think that they had a pretty poor relationship with their parents in the first place if they didn't understand.

As a child I was forced to pretend I believed in Santa by one parent so as not to upset the other. So Santa in this house is a take it or leave it concept. If the kids choose to believe he brings a stocking full of tat, and trust me I only put tat in their stocking for this reason, then it's no loss to me. I don't perpetuate the myth, and when my daughter asked at three I was happy to explain that Santa was a character in a story that some people choose to believe in. Not done any of us any harm.

Well it is a lie. Dress it up how you will. You tell your children a man comes down the chimney to delivers presents. This isn't true.

Just because you don't like being CALLED a liar.

It isn't sodding magic or anything else, it's a lie. If you choose to lie to your children, then it's nothing to do with anyone else, but don't deny what it is.

As I said some right barrel of fun misery guts out there.

I'm quite a fun mum. We do all sorts of excellent stuff. I even make the effort to shove a tree up and 'do' the Christmas thing even though I detest it. I just don't actively encourage a belief in Santa. My kids make their own minds up. Right now the eight year old is undecided and the four year old assumes some fat bloke in red plonks a stocking with a cracker and some crayons or some such on the end of his bed. Is leaving them to make their own mind up such a bad thing?