To think that most children are not feral and abusive?

[pointythings]

I was just at the Barnardo's survey that seemed to suggest that 49% of us think that all children are feral, violent and abusive. Who on earth did they ask?

The absolutely vast majority of the kids I see around me are absolutely fine, no different from the kind of children I grew up with, and we have some really deprived families in my area.

Who are these people who hate children so much?

The only problem I have ever had with teenagers is a group of middle class 17 year olds who congregate in a car park close to our house, rev their engines, play their stereos REALLY loud and do wheelspins. They also drop litter in great quantities, despite there being at least 3 bins close by. On the odd occasion that I have been out to ask them to tone it down, I have been driven at, sworn at and threatened with a slap. One of these little scroats proudly told me that he is a trainee accountant who pays his taxes and therefore is entitled to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants. Another told me that there's nothing else for them to do (the car park is adjacent to a football field, a cricket pitch, tennis courts, a river, and there is a rugby pitch 2 minutes away. They all have nice, fairly new cars, and don't look at all feral. The ones that do are generally out finding something to do, like swimming in the river or kicking a football around.

I think it sad that we can't interact missingmumxox. I think it would solve theproblem. But no one dares to-because it is all about my DC. If old ladies were allowed to touch babies without being 'dirty strangers', you could chat to a 3 yr old on the bus etc etc there wouldn't be the problem.
Groups of teens are generally fine if you are nice to them. When my DSs were little they were never put off groups sitting on slides etc. They would just toddle over to use the equipment and they always moved -I remember some of them engaging me in conversation about childcare! Many people would have kept their DCs well away.

It's because people read in the paper that a youth stabbed someone, and make the assumption that if they speak to youths, they will get stabbed.

I used to volunteer for the youth offending service, and I used to go and visit the stabby ones. There is often a massive back story to these cases, and although I truly support the police, some of these kids have been stitched up completely. I met one girl who's basically had her life ruined because when she tried to take a knife off someone, he pulled it and cut his own hand. But she was holding it too - so "She stabbed him". She lost her college placement in a nursery, she lost her place on her childcare course, she lost the right to ever work with children again, she lost her dream, all because one copper lost perspective. She was only 17 and it was just so very sad. I shoved her on a hairdressing course because I genuinely couldn't think of anything else to offer her.

colditz aggree re the police. My son saved for 2 years to buy his motorbike.He was at college and worked evenings and weekends in a kitchen.we were worried about him as he was sooo tired.

The police stopped him so much and pointed out petty things-foot in wrong place on the bike.head light too bright.He had to produce his docs so much he was constantly at the station.One day they unlawfully took his bike and taunted him that they would take turns to ride it. They said he had no insurance,he did and we had to collect the bike. The stand was broken and the people were very threatening to us when we said so. We made a complaint but of course it wasnt up held. He now hates the police when before he was very respectfull

Have you ever heard the phrase "There are 3 types of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics". People can twist scientific information to show something that's not really what the information is saying, they just use the right context. The Daily Mail does this a lot.

And some surveys or SI isn't accurate because the pool size is too small, not varied enough or not randomised. There are quite a few feral kids around but I don't see how the stats could have said 49% said ALL, maybe some or 'more' (relative to what i don't know, but i suspect the stats have been manipulated or the survey badly done to get that stat.

I think I must live in a pretty child-friendly area. We all seem to like the kids, raise money for them, run two youth clubs, and if you so much as frown at a teenager in the street they look at the floor in case they are doing something wrong. When my son's bike was mildly vandalised the teens sorted it out amongst themselves and the perpetrator got told off by them and left out of activities until he had promised to behave properly. The local bike man fixed my son's bike for free as well.

Up the road it's a bit rougher, and there's more petty theft and so on, but nothing particularly alarming. There are places for teens to go and generally they are treated reasonably well - they certainly wouldn't be left out in the rain whilst waiting for a takeaway, for example.

When we lived in Battersea, on the other hand, kids would stare you out and give you cheek and some of them roamed unchecked. Even there I remember people being reasonably nice to the kids around us.

As someone said it depends who they interviewed. There are pockets in some areas were the children misbehave in groups. And working manners , when I was young, were not the same as middle or upper class. That said, I was a polite child. I got a bit bolshi later on; in a controlled way. Barnodos do a lot of good work. They do have to fight for publicity.

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YANBU

Almost every child I know is lovely and most definitely not feral and wildly out of control.

There are a small, but significant, number of children who are out of control - sadly it is these that are always picked up on in the media and that is who some people then see children as a whole.

I don't think that chiuldren, on the whole, are any different now as any other generation tbh.

And even if children were becoming more wild and out of control - who's fault is that? Not the children that's for sure, but the adults who are supposed to be caring for them and teaching them right and wrong, the ones who are now complaining about them infact!

A few people have said on here that it takes a community to raise a child.

Yet many people also feel that any engagement with other people's kids is likely to land them in trouble, either with the kids or their parents.

Where the 'community' may once have felt able to pick up the slack for poor parental input - perhaps it doesn't anymore.

Hence men no longer go into teaching in the same numbers for fear of being branded 'paedos' and so on.

If parents want other adults to be involved in raising their children then they have to stop trying to legislate against them.

That is my point entirely greentown, while my DSs and DH would be scared to help a distressed lost DC and while people post on MN 'why must dirty strangers touch my baby-people are going to be very wary. If you want people to be child friendly you have to let them engage and talk to your DC.
You are expected not to mind the toddler wandering around the cafe, I don't mind at all, but I do mind the fact that the mother would be all suspicious if you tried talking to them.

On another thread I've just been accused of stealth boasting because I used one strong positive adjective about one aspect of my daughters behaviour. I could almost see their point, if the whole topic wasn't about another aspect of her behaviour where she/I are failing! Whole topic on failing but with one positive word in? How very indulgent.

I sometimes feel society doesn't allow us to like children. Not anyone else's (especially not if you're a man) and certainly not our own, good grief no! One must outwardly be seen to suspect all children of being demons in human guise or risk involuntary social solitude... FFS

In Spain waiters touched my toddler-they even picked him up. They wouldn't dare in UK- and then they are told they are not child friendly!

Apparently men have even got to watch where they sit if out and about-if they are near a playground they can't sit alone and eat their sandwiches, someone will be watching them and thinking they are up to no good.

I obviously live in a lovely little bubble, waiters regulary come and play with Ds, hold him while I sort highchair out etc not a problem.

Last weekend we had a lovely old man come and talk to him about his balloon, Ds (nearly 2) happily shook his hand and the man commented it had made his day!

Other people would come on MN Sirzy and call the old man a 'dirty stranger'! (it crops up regulary as my baby is better off in an antiseptic bubble )

I found people friendly and if you react in a friendly manner you get the same back.If the mother radiates disapproval the waiter is going to keep his distance.

If you are friendly to the menacing looking teenagers they are friendly back.(generally)

I have seen such threads exotic and find them sad.

Perhaps it's how I was raised but to me it's so important for society for children to grow up knowing that people are on the whole nice, and that elderly people in particular are lovely to sit and listen to the stories of.

You can raise a child to be aware of 'stranger danger' without that involving being rude to strangers especially when your parents are with you.

Lately I been forgetting to turn the lights off on my car, happens at the start of every winter. At least 90% of the time it is a menacing teenager that shouts after me "oi, you've left your lights on". If it wasn't for menacing teenagers I would spend at least one day a week stranded in a car park awaiting help. I am bloody grateful that menacing teenagers hang around in car parks and aren't ashamed to shout at strangers.

Of course they need to be aware of stranger danger and not get into a position of danger but an old lady stroking the foot of a baby while the mother is holding it, or a toddler talking to an elderly man next to his mother isn't in any danger.
My grandfather would be so sad if he was alive today, he loved the company of small DCs and they loved him. He just enjoyed their conversation. I have a picture of him in hospital with a little girl on his bed, when I asked who she was my mother said she didn't know she was visiting some one else in the ward. I doubt he could do it now and it was completely innocent.
There will another thread soon with 'dirty' strangers-so sad-they turn up with monotonous regularity.

If a stranger engages with a child of any age, but particularly adult males with young children, they put themselves in real danger.
It's really not surprising that adults are retreating from contact with children -I don't think adults 'hate' children - they are afraid of them and the damage they can inflict on their lives, and sadly, many have good reason for this fear.
Sadly also, many children and adults choose to exploit this fear with a "you can't touch me/ you can't touch my kids" approach to other adults/society.

They aren't putting themselves in danger they are being nice.

Is it any wonder we have children growing up not knowing how to engage with society!

That's a nice thought Sirzy. I think if people really thought that though, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
People are afraid.

The point you make about Spanish waiters is interesting - I suspect the same people who would frown at strangers approaching their kids in England probably wouldn't in Spain.
Why is that? Is it that they want their kids looked after by the staff while they eat? Or some sort of national self-hatred/ mistrust of your own? Or because they don't speak the language or understand the connotations/tone they feel safer? Or do people believe that the Spanish or French don't have paedophiles of their own?
Or again, because people can't understand the language, they don't perceive that they are being poked at/judged, or having their parental qualities called into question?

I think we're encouraged (via Daily Mail etc) to think any passing yoof is going to run amok and stab us, definitely.

I had a lovely incident last summer, walking home after school one Friday with the Inferiorettes and a friend. Ahead of us on the pavement were three Yoofs, maybe 14 or 15, sporting the uniform of a School That Is Not Very Naice, occupying lots of the pavement, and generally being, you know, young. We got within a few metres and they looked round and saw us, and one of them bellowed to his mates OI, GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE LITTLE GELS! and physically hoiked his friend out of our way. Said friends then looked at us and said in slightly aggrieved manner WE WAS GOING TO GET OUT OF YER WAY HONEST, and I beamed and said in my best Naice Lady way 'thank you, boys', and we all felt very warm and lovely and moved on...