To think that most children are not feral and abusive?

[pointythings]

I was just at the Barnardo's survey that seemed to suggest that 49% of us think that all children are feral, violent and abusive. Who on earth did they ask?

The absolutely vast majority of the kids I see around me are absolutely fine, no different from the kind of children I grew up with, and we have some really deprived families in my area.

Who are these people who hate children so much?

We need to start demanding that they do look at things properly - this was quite a big story yesterday on the BBC - yet is essentially nonsense. I guess part of the problem is that 'new' news needs to be found constantly rather than quality news.

I think it's bollocks, and that you tend to get back what you give out. Last New Year I was walking past the snooker club at the bottom of my road. Two young lads, about fifteen or so were having a fag outside. They were wearing standard-issue feral gear. One of them grinned at me and said "Happy New Year, young lady". Fifty-six year old me mimed looking all around for the young lady, then I replied, "Oh, you mean me! Happy New Year, young gentlemen." They fell about laughing, and one said "You've made my day." It made mine, too.

Another time I was walking to work and caught my heel in a pothole. I staggered forwards and hit my head on a fence post. Luckily I didn't fall over, but even so it hurt like hell and I was shocked. Two teenagers rushed over and were very concerned. The young girl gave me some tissues and they asked me if I was sure I was OK before we went our separate ways. That was heart-warming too. And I'm rather fond of the Goths who congregate in our local park. So diligently gloomy and introspective. They remind me of me at that age, only we were hippies then.

I meet quite a few young people through my music, and find them very friendly and polite - and they look up to me, bless them. This makes me happy as I've spent a lot of my life being bullied and squashed.

Surveys like this, and DM readers' attitudes in general make me wonder if the nay-sayers were ever young themselves. Perhaps if they were, they were repulsive goody-goodies like my brother.

I totally agree that most children are not feral or abusive, but I have to admit I've come across my fair share. I don't mean that I don't think most are lovely but I'd probably put the 'most' at 90-95%, not 99.

Re the shopkeepers, I understand the point being made but the difference is of course that children often come into shops in very big groups and it's hard to keep an eye on them all - not usually the case for adults.

That is really sad. :( I used to work with delinquent teen boys and they were violent and thuggish at times but...underneath it all were some very good boys. And with a little help they were on their way to being quite decent men.

I agree with whoever said the worst of them can sometimes be the snotty little rich ones who are never pulled up on their behavior and are taught that rules don't apply to them. It's not always the hoodies in front of McDonalds and shame on you if you think so.

There was a good comment on the report in the Independent, to the effect that what the survey actually proved was that nearly half of British adults are evidently idiots.

I think albertcamus might work in my home town as well lol.

You will always get vile little shits, but they are absolutely in the minority, and very often they are the result of shit parenting. There are very few inherently bad children.

Whilst most are not feral I think that it is a Problem that has been growing worse over the years. It's also part of a wider issue of how we view children currently. If the child is not affiliated with you in some way then they are not your Problem the only time we take notice is when they are acting up in a way that bothers us.

And to be fair parents reinforce this I remember being told off by lots of different people as a youngster including strangers and if I went to tell my parents they would tell me off even more.

Now parents defend their kids no matter what they do, I witnessed a man telling off a child he saw puncturing people's car tyres he took the child to his mother who then preceded to shout at the man for daring to tell off her son. And there are loads of threads on MN with people complaing about people telling off their kids.

I live in a supposedly 'rough' area, council/housing assoc estate. The local newspaper prints things about kiddies going round here setting fires. Now, I don't usually hang about the streets at night, and yes there are some teenagers who (noisily) play football til later than I'd prefer, and some kids who climb over fences where they shouldn't, but actually all the ones who've spoken to me and my toddler have been very sweet and friendly. The worst I've seen kids doing is taking plastic packing crates to the park to build dens with- which tbh is something I'd have been doing as a kid if I'd lived in a city (also we used to climb fences and get in places all the time, so don't think that's anything new!). I know there are some nasty kids, but based on what I see now, and my own experiences as a teenager, a lot of them are the ones people think are great (you know, the arrogant, sporty, dad-owns-business, academically-ok-but-not-super-bright type). It's weird because they're the exact ones whose parents are reading the Mail and thinking everyone else's kids are feral NED criminals.

I happen to think 49% of adults are feral and abusive! :o

On a serious note, it is sad that people think this of our young people. I work with them every day in a more "deprived" area of inner city london and there are some amazing characters amongst our young people from ALL walks of life! There is a lot of work that needs to be done with families in need of support though.

It is worth saying that from my understanding, this survey took place just after the London riots when a lot of people were still angry and recovering from the effects and which was also wrongly reported by the media as being "led" purely by young people, which may have influenced the results.

Also lol at people again rolling out that nosense about people getting lots of money for having children- dudes are you really that stupid? Before I had children I could afford to go on holiday, buy myself new clothes that weren't from sodding Asda, go out for dinner sometimes, etc. Believe me, I didn't have kids for the money (nor the lavish parenting 'lifestyle')!

I feel better about my fellow human beings now. Obviously the people who ran this survey didn't ask us nice, warm-hearted, caring MN-ers .

Another one thinking albertcamus worked in the same school as me. Particularly if it was this murder: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7046062/Reading-murder-suspect-quoted-lyrics-about-prison-on-personal-website.html If not, I reckon that most of the staff who worked there could have predicted this.

Yep, I also have to agree that most children are lovely. I now teach in a school where we have had another child permanantly excluded today (cannabis possession) and the overwhelming reaction from the staff was to wonder if there was anything we could do to prevent it as he was a nice kid!

Cannabis is rife in dd's school, as is cocaine. I'm thankful she is not into tha scene.

Cheerful Yank tidy & tortu - over my 21 years in teaching I have been in a wide variety of environments from a top public boarding school (of the sort I attended myself) through to Special Measures dumping grounds, and my general observations are that:

1 children's academic aptitude and interpersonal skills will develop to a certain point, virtually regardless of parental input, influence & aspiration, however much many MC parents wish to spend, or how much they want to believe that they can change their child; they are born with their stock of abilities, which if they are lucky, may be exploited to the full - even then this is not enough for the aspirational MC parent who decries a B result & seeks to blame teachers, peergroup, society, anyone rather than face the child's limitations

2 a growing majority of young people in the UK lack social self-esteem, across class boundaries, a situation which is re-inforced by negative attitudes towards them by people older than them who rapidly forget that each generation faces its unique set of opportunities & challenges (chicken & egg)

3 rapidly growing numbers of MC kids are utterly without care for their parents' feelings, fears and aspirations, preferring to squirt vodka into their eyeballs, snort ketamine or tombstone off the West Coast while Mummy & Daddy are boasting about their 10 x A* results

I think that other Western European countries are ahead of us in equipping their young people for today's socio-economic environment ... not least remembering that without happiness, motivation & acceptance, a child's achievements mean little to them :(

Maybe it was 4.9% and someone left out a decimal.

Here's another story to report - during the recent Japan earthquake (ok, I know it's not Britain and nothing to do with Barnados but it's a good story!), there was a charity handing out free meals and drinks to survivors. Someone noticed that a gaggle of teenage girls seemed to be going back repeatedly to the queue to get third, fourth, etc helpings. Feeling a bit indignant that these "feral" teens (grownups tut tutting about children and teenagers is a universal practice, not just confined to Britain) might he hoarding supplies meant for hungry people who had lost their homes, she followed them back after they got their fourth helping....and was amazed to see them bringing it back to a group of elderly pensioners who were too frail to stand in line for a long time. They weren't related to each other - the teenagers had just noticed them and thought they would need assistance.

Lots of lovely adults were once lovely children and teens .

"It takes a community to raise a child"

Whoever said that is spot on.

"my child, my rules" - a child is never yours! Nobody owns another being. A parents job is to take care of and raise these children to be as happy and emotionally stable as possible...until they're adults and can choose their own paths. If the community in general want 'good' kids, then the community as a whole have a role to play in these childrens lives (and parents should let them!)

It is the term that I hate worst on MN, 'my DC, my rules'. They are not a possession, you are very honoured to have them to nurture for a very short time. Your job as a parent is to give them roots and give them wings-hopefully they will choose to come back at times.

I've only ever met lovely children. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Lovely children at DS's school (young men now really); lovely children at the dc's primary; 95% at dd's sought after cofe London Compu were lovely but there were 5% who were dysfuntional, disruptive, abusive, feral and violent. The school was prepared to do nothing about it except make excuses. There is a small minority undoubtedly with limited support who cannot and will not behave. Excuses are made for them continually - there are never sufficient consequences until somebody actually gets hurt. We didn't want to risk either dd's safety or education and had the means to move her to the private sector. So glad we did; a child has now been assaulted at her old school - two weeks after Ofsted gave it an outstanding .

I think if there is a problem it is down to the way we treat children, my poor twins are in confusion having moved from the states where adults actually interact with strange children instead of being worried about being labled paedos! sit and chat play with them in shops etc and it works the other way to the point I once in borders book shop picked up one of my Ds who was being a little Shit! and misbehaving after I had warned him a few times, and walked out to adults clapping and saying "way to go Mom" I forgive them the Mom..almost! I felt like a failure , but they actually made me realise I was actually doing the right thing.
I think we should be proud of our teens and young adults, they have done it dispite our negligence.

This is what i hav been saying for years. We treat children like crap in this country.

Right from birth people are moaning about pushchairs on buses and babies crying in restaurants or bf in public.

Then they get older and we are slated for daring to drive them to school and they are moaned at for playing too noisily in their gardens.

Then they get to teenagers and although this country provides sod all for them to do,they are berated for hanging about on street corners or being in groups and spoken too and abouit as if they are 2nd class citizens.

Then we wonder why they disrespect adults.

I saw a woman telling a group of chatty school kids off on the bus the other day-IT WAS THE 3.30 BUS FGS.

I saw 3 nice lads order a take away from the local chinese the other day and get told to "wait for it outside" In the rain i might add.

When my lads were younger there was an anti dispertion order in our village.
I had several letters from the police that they were in "gangs"
They were walking home together,they are brothers

The old people said they were intimidated by them although would swear at them for no reason as they passed them,one old lady even kicked my sons bike over as she walked by,it was just leaning against a post and not in her way.

I was in the park the other day and a few were a bit sweary. I asked them if they could tone it down as i had dd with me.They apologised and stopped cos i asked them nicely,had i been vile they would probably been vile back.
Hrdly rocket science.

There are a few bad apples as there are adults but untill we start to trate our childen and youth with respect this will only get worse.

This really saddens me.

I have a house full of teenage boys next door. They are cheeky, boisterous and mischeivous and are turning their mothers hair grey but they have always been nothing but polite and respectful to me. But i believe thats because i treat them with respect.

About a year ago i got on the train to work. Everyone was sat on the outside of 2 seats and avoiding eye contact with me hoping i wouldn't ask them if i could sit down. I saw movement out of the corner of my eye and saw a boy of about 13/14 (complete with hoody etc) moving up to let me sit down. Over the hour journer we chatted and he told me he had been taken away from his mother and was in foster care, he had been expelled from school and kept getting in trouble for fighting. He told me how much he missed his little brother and showed me pics of him on his mobile phone. We chatted about Guitar Hero and he recommended i get it, and told me about his friends who he was on his way to see.

I saw him twice more and each time letting me sit down. He had a real impact on me and i think about him often and wonder what he's doing and whether he's ok.

It does annoy me when people say there is nothing for teenagers to do. There is plenty out there if they go and look for it. I would say unless you live somewhere very isolated then there would be pretty much something to suit every teenager.

I live in a very quiet town yet still have access to a wide range of clubs and activities ran by volunteers trying to make a difference. Lots of young people engage with these things but of course they cant be forced to.

Flossy, that is heart-breaking. I don't think all kids are feral, they may be a bit loud and boisterous but that is about it.

About 10 years ago I was very ill, walking with a stick. One day I was struggling with shopping and this 'feral thug' carried my shopping for me. We chatted how he kept his trainers so clean as they were absolutely spotless and he told me about his little sister, he was so polite and so utterly charming.

Thankfully I have recovered now but I did encounter many more instances of kindness shown by teenagers, they may look like 'hoodies' however that does not mean they ARE bad kids.