Regarding parents in law and toilet training

[birdynumnums]

Having a torrid time attempting to toilet train my Ds aged 3.3.Tried when he was 2, was a complete failure because he just wasn't ready. Started again 3 months ago because he was due to start nursery in September but we have not had much success. He is terrified of the toilet for some reason and does not want to do his business on the potty (have purchased 3 different potties). Last week, we have managed to get him to do 5 wees on the potties by bribery, offering a new toy, a chocolate or to put a song on I know he likes. It is incredibly slow I know but I do feel we have made some progress because before he would not even sit on the potty.

Parents in law are appalled that he is not trained as their children were all trained at 18 months. I can't critisise them really because they are really helpful to me in terms of childcare and are very kind in general but somethig has happened today that has really upset me.

Ds came out of nursery - he only started 4 weeks ago and is really struggling due to tiredness. He came out looking absolutely shattered. PIL gave me a lift to the nursery to pick him up as I don't drive and we know how tired he is at the end of his sessions at the moment. Ds had held his wee for the entire time he was there (as he does normally) and as soon as we got back to PIL's house, he wet himself in his trousers and started to cry. MIL grabbed him, hoisted his trousers off and then forced him to sit on the toilet for at least 5 minutes. He was screaming, terrified and shouting for me. They said accusingly this child needs practice sitting on the toilet because this should not be happening.

They were cross that there was wee on their carpet and asked me to put a nappy on him. By this point DS was in complete meltdown mode and was smacking them and they just wouldn't leave him alone. I gave him a huge hug and tried to sit quietly with him on the sofa as I know that is the only way to get him out of his temper when he is shattered but they kept getting in his face telling him to be a good boy and then when he lashed out were shouting at him. I kept trying to tell him in a quiet way that he should not hit people but I knew they were judging me because a) they think I should tell him off more (DS is challenging and being evaluated for special needs at the moment. I have learnt to pick my battles and when he is in a meltdown, I know the only way is to sit quietly with him until he calms down). and b) They think I am a failure because he is not toilet trained yet.

I just feel awful now because not only do I know they think I'm an awful parent but because I feel I let Ds down massively. I think what they did could stall the mild success we have had lately because he was so freaked out at being made to sit on the toilet against his will. I prefer to gently coax him. I am so non confrontational, a bit of a wuss really but I wish I had acted on instinct and just grabbed DS from mil when she forced him and told her that is not what we do but I didn't want to hurt her feelings because she is trying to help. DP says they are upset because they spent 45 minutes cleaning up a wee on their carpet with a paper towel (?) on Sunday and have requested he wear a nappy at their house in future. I am worried because they look after him 1 day a week for us and don't want this happening on a regular basis. Have told my mum and she says I should have told them off and said she was disappointed in me. Dp thinks we are having such slow success, maybe we should try being tougher but says if what I saw upset me, he would support me in saying so. Am I being unreasonable in thinking those sort of methods don't work or is my softly softly approach not working so I need to get tougher?

YANBU

I'd be having some serious words, no one has the right to upset you child! NO ONE

YANBU and putting him in a nappy at yours could, potentially, make potty traininig harder as the poor lad won't know what is happening, ie can he wee where he stands or not?

And at 45 mins cleaning? How much wee did DS do?

DS will find his own way when he is ready. What has happened today will not help him. When you collect him from nursery, could you take a potty with you and take him with the potty to the loo before you leave if he is holding it all in while he is there?

You are not a bad parent - ds will potty train when he is ready. Do you have to be indebted to the ILs - could you break away a bit so that you are completely in control of this and ds gets only one clear message. I think they have made it worse for you.

FWIW our dd didn't have sn and wasn't difficult to potty train but she was terrified of toilets until she was about 4 - we just went with the flow. (not meant as a pun)

They were cross that there was wee on their carpet and asked me to put a nappy on him. By this point DS was in complete meltdown mode and was smacking them and they just wouldn't leave him alone.

riiiiiight - and you stood for this?

they kept getting in his face telling him to be a good boy and then when he lashed out were shouting at him

And you sat there?

I am aghast at their behaviour. YOU are his parent, they defer to you on when and how to train your child, they should absolutely NOT be behaving like this.

I don't know if this is an option but I wouldn't let them look after him for a while, if this is the way they deal with a bit of wee on a carpet.

45 minutes? Madness.

The nursery have a potty and they tell him to sit on it every 30 mins. Apparently, he pulls his trousers down and sits on it happily but has only managed to wee in it twice. Progress is slow but DS is a very stubborn child and I was feeling positive about the last week because at least he was responding to the bribery and now I know at least he understands what he is meant to do.

I did wonder about the 45 min cleaning time myself. To be fair, Ds holds himself for hours and hours some days but we just get the bucket of hot water and disenfectant out and we are clean within 5 mins.

I know you are right, I am feeling pretty awful about it. I know I let him down. I hate confrontation, really struggle with it and am not the most confident of people. I need to grow a backbone.

YANBU. As a mum of a ds x 3 with sn I can guarantee potty training will take longer and be at a later age. You are not an awful parent, you are doing what feels right for you and your ds, don't be hard on yourself. I will say however you will grow a thick skin and you will have to learn to stand up and be counted if your son does have sn. It is not an easy ride. Please come and join us on the sn board if haven't already.

I know its a bit stable door and bolted horse but I used to plonk mines both on the potty from the point they could sit up themselves so that they werent scared of it. I think that its quite a common "phobia" for children and Im sure if you google there will be good advice on it.

Does he get to see you and his dad use the toilet too?

I know that wasnt the point of your post but its going to be traumatic for him at school if you dont get him trained, kids can be very cruel, it shouldnt be an issue yet surely though, lots of kids at nursery were still in nappies IIRC.

But yeah you need to say something, for a start, any attention to a tantruming child, positive or negative, reinforces that behaviour. If you can gently calm him fair enough, but engaging in dialogue is not a good idea. You already KNOW this from your post - dont be shy, your instincts are good, have the confidence to follow them.

On a practical note, ds was a very reluctant potty trainer and would hold his wee for ages. I used to put him in thick jeans (the really cheap ones from Tesco were good) so that they soaked up a lot of the wee before it hit the floor, especially if he was standing up. Never ever spent 45 minutes cleaning up an accident!

Sorry you've had such a horrible time. Do your PIL have to look after him? Think I'd be very reluctant to send him, would worry all day that he would have an accident and they'd go ballistic. Putting him in nappies just at their house could well make him confused.

Look ... I have 3 boys

Nbr 1 ... dry day and night @ 22 months - utterly castigated by the HV for 'forcing him ' - well I want aware you could force dry nights

Nbr 2...yes well , we just wont go there - still messing himself in Y6 - and diagnosed with IBS. Bet wet unti l he was 12.

Nbr 3....Oh dear god. A TA got him dry day time with a stern talking to in reception. Night time closely followed.

They will do it in their own time. Allowing GPs to berate him just wont help matters - mind you - neither will molly coddling.

Gotta say - sling the potty out - use a proper toilet .... children copy adults and unless you make a habit of squatting on the carpet for effect , toilet trainign isnt going to happen.

Now your ILs maybe lovely people but they arent doing things your way. I can't critisise them really because they are really helpful to me in terms of childcare riiight.

What troisgarcons said.

If your IL's aren't willing to support you on this, I'd suggest trying to find alternate childcare that WILL support you.

DS got the hang of the toilet when I started letting him come to the toilet with me. Once he started nursery, he had it nailed.

You will get there. DS is 3.9. We've finally got there, recently... Strangely enough, he cracked night time before days.

Don't beat yourself up everyone makes mistakes just decide how you are going to handle it (them) from now.

Is it possible to stop them having him for a few weeks? Though the way they reacted id say they will be lucky if he wants to see them. I would also say no to putting a nappy on him at theirs an if they don't like it they can visit him at yours

Them forcing him on to the toilet when he is scared is just going to set him back. You seem to be making progress and I hope this doesn't change that

Sorry OP sounds like you've had a rotten day.
With the benefit of hindsight I think you know you should have stood firmer against your IL's reactions. They were totally out of order and making an unfortunate but understandable accident into this awful situation.
Do you have an alternative for them looking after him? If they're so unprepared to go with your approaches I'd be looking for alternatives.
Really hope you can continue with the slow improvements in the potty training, and your DS IS very young in his nursery so no wonder he's so tired.

Poor you, that sounds awful, and your poor DS as well. :( I do think our parents' generation reminisce about how their children were potty trained at 18 months and have a very rose-tinted view about it, but I doubt that was the reality for most children. It sounds as though your DS could be confused by the different approaches taken to potty training by you, his nursery and his GPs, but you are his parent and you are entitled to say how you want to approach it (is the nursery a day-care setting or a pre-school by the way?). I have 3 dcs who've all potty trained at different times, but I haven't forced the issue with any of them. IMHE, the best way is to take the heat out of the situation by being completely nonchalant about it and acting as if it makes no odds to you whether he uses the potty or not. When he's ready, he will.

What a horrible way for them to behave towards theirs grandson. Especially as, I assume, they are aware of his being evaluated for sn.

My auntie made me terrified of the potty when I was little. She looked after me and my sister for a week or weekend, I was at the point where my parents were just starting to introduce me to the potty so the potty came with us to aunties house. Obviously I cant remember but the family story goes that by the time I went home I was so terrified of the potty that they had to give up trying to train me for a while and re-start a few months later.

I don't know what to suggest really I'm afraid, just the obvious of trying to make it as stress free as possible, which I'm sure you do already.

If you can't do it yourself though I would definately get your oh to have a strong word with ILs to make sure that they never behave like that again. And if they do try something like that again in your presence bring out your inner lioness and tell them in no uncertain terms to stop.

Tell them when you next see them if ds isn't around or listening in that you didn't say anything at the time because you didn't want to ds to see his mum and grandparents arguing but that their behaviour the other day really upset you and your ds. And that you are very surprised that they don't want the best for their grandchild - he is not their son and he doesn't respond in the same way. That their behaviour has set your ds's potty training back, he's now even more freaked out by the loo and by their reaction to him (screaming at him and holding him somewhere he hates, shouting at him even more afterwards). Also say that as you were there you were upset that they swooped in so quickly without giving you a chance to do the parenting of your own child and then once you finally did have him back, they continued to try to interfere and make the situation worse.

I'm guessing that you will be able to write this all out much better covering all the points and your feelings from the incident.

Rehearse it in your head over and over so when you have the conversation with them you don't get emotional or thrown by anything they throw back at you.

Even better, get dh to do it all as it is his parents. And go for it expecting an apology from them - it's one thing for you to say sorry that your son had an accident; he's not toilet trained, accidents happen, the gp need to be able to cope with this concept. But they should be apologising to you and your ds for their appalling behaviour afterwards; it's completely unreasonable for grown up adults that are supposed to be loving and caring to behave like this. Oh and they should know how to clean up an accident like this from their carpets by now!

I read somewhere that children used to be potty trained earlier because old fashioned terry nappies were so uncomfortable when wet that they learnt the connection between weeing and the horrible wet feeling. DS1 was dry in the day most of the time at 4. He still has the occasional accident in the day and wears pull ups at night. DS2 is 3.5 and can sometimes tell me after he has done a poo but sometimes he says he's done one but actually it's a fart. Your ds is still little.

Vic77en, he does seem terribly young at nursery. He looks like a baby compared to some of the others and his language skills are like that of a 2 year old so it is hard for him. I feel like DP's side of the family are determined that something is wrong with him but over the last 3 months, he has improved so much. Today he has been telling me the names of the children he has played with which is a massive deal because he would always ignore us if we asked when he went to playgroup. So I have had a few nice moments today.

Thanks to those who made kind comments and to those who have critisised me - I needed to hear it. I just need to think of a way to address this to PIL now without causing offence. It is a tricky situation. My mum is great with DS, I think she spoils him because he is her precious first grandson but she knows what makes him tick and she never has any problems with him. He gets upset if PIL pick him up and not her which is sad for PIL because I know they do really love him. My mum has a gentle approach to the toilet training like me, keeps him in pants and just quietly cleans up after an accident. My mum has got him to have a couple of wees on the potty and my PIL have not. My mum's partner is very poorly at the moment so she can't have him as much for me which is upsetting DS. Really stressed out with it now. PIL are due to have him Friday.

My DS didn't take to potty training at all, we tried everything and it seemed to take forever. In he end we bought a musical/talking toilet ( direct.tesco.com/q/R.206-4520.aspx if the link doesn't work go to tesco.com cat number 206-4520) and within a few weeks he was fully trained, even getting up to use the toilet in the night time by himself. Once he was used to the potty we then started introducing the 'big boy' toilet again. The link above is for the one we used (although there are plenty of others) as it comes with a sticker chart which once filled can be turned over and its a certificate and other features like a 'flushing' handle which were great too.
I have recently suggested it to another mum who was struggling with potty training and she told me since they've been using it, toilet training has improved hugely with her DS too.
Don't get stressed about it, it will happen at some point. I remember feeling really fed up with it all and feeling panicked about sending him to nursery without being toilet trained. I used to have people telling me all the time, well mine were trained by a year/18 month onwards, ignore them, it doesn't matter.
With the in-laws I think you need to speak to them about this incident, obviously you are still upset about it (as I would be too) you need to clear the air, especially if they do look after DS for you. Maybe explain you realise they were only trying to help but it wasn't the best approach especially as DS was getting more and more upset, maybe offer a few pointers on how best to deal with the situation in future. They may not like this but if you are leaving him with them on a regular basis you need to be sure that they will not react like this towards him again and you are happy with the way things are done whilst you are not around.

YANBU.

My MIL is very precious about her carpets. DD stayed with PILs one night whilst she was potty-training and for the next few months refused to go without a nappy, becoming hysterical at the possibility of having an accident. Literally refusing to wear knickers and screaming "I don't want to have an accident!".

We thought it was just a coincidence of the timing until I witnessed MIL's completely OTT reaction to DN having an accident on a laminate floor, not even in PIL's house. Complete panic, hysteria, disinfectant, hot water, scrubbing for ages, shouting...

I then realised that if my DD had had an accident on MIL's carpet and been greeted by the same reaction, or worse, rather than an understanding "never mind sweetheart, accidents happen", she was bound to feel upset about the possibility of another accident!

Luckily DH was very supportive and had a word with his mum the next time she looked after DD (some considerable time later, once she was toilet-trained). And we have been very sparing with our visits to PIL's house since then.

Can you maybe make your point in a passive-aggressive way by saying you will pay to have their carpets professionally cleaned if DS does have an accident, as you know how much they love their carpets more than their grandson it would appear?

My DD ended up pretty much skipping the potty stage and started using the toilet instead. Maybe your DS will do the same. Good luck!

Let's get this in context. DS was 2.8 when trained in the day and 2.9 at night. He was not in the least bit interested and led it himself when he was ready - it felt late but he never had an accident.

DD was 2.10 for the potty and I had to lift her every night until she was about 5. She was terrified of toilets until she was 4.

DS is g&t, DD is top average. We never made a fuss about toilet training and let them let us know when they were ready. Your dd is only 3.3 - not that much older than either of mine and may also have some problems developmentally and may very well catch up.

Whatever happens he sounds very badgered and very stressed about the potty and whole toilet training issue. Why not just put him back in nappies for a while and totally remove the stress from him. You don't have to justify it, it is your decision and you are the mother (if anyone presses you just say "we have been to the GP and talked it over and he/she has suggested this and I am giving it a try"). Let the little lad enjoy nursery and make some friends and work on his social skills for a while - don't forget what a big step nursery is and how much adjustment it needs and also the stress of seeing less of your mum. One step at a time until all the bits fall into place. Far better a hug and a cuddle after nursery than an issue about a pot.

Once he's got some little friends he will probably wonder why he's still in nappies and copy them. It's brilliant that he's telling you who he has played with.

I have a 4 year old DS with SN - he is still in nappies and training him is still a long way off yet. One of the things we do when teaching him a new skill is called "Reverse Chaining" ie starting with the last bit. DS comes into the toilet with me often and likes to have a piece of loo roll so that he can drop it in the toilet and see it flush - we will build up the process very gradually backwards. May be worth trying this approach with your DS

i would have told them to fuck off and left,he will train when HE is ready,forcing him to sit on the loo wont help!my ds1 trained & dry day & night in 3 days yet my other 3 were all over the age of 3 and twins2 was still in nappies when he went to nursery and he trained there,all kids are different,my sil forced her dd at 18mths and now at nearly 9 yrs old wets herself.