Regarding parents in law and toilet training

[birdynumnums]

Having a torrid time attempting to toilet train my Ds aged 3.3.Tried when he was 2, was a complete failure because he just wasn't ready. Started again 3 months ago because he was due to start nursery in September but we have not had much success. He is terrified of the toilet for some reason and does not want to do his business on the potty (have purchased 3 different potties). Last week, we have managed to get him to do 5 wees on the potties by bribery, offering a new toy, a chocolate or to put a song on I know he likes. It is incredibly slow I know but I do feel we have made some progress because before he would not even sit on the potty.

Parents in law are appalled that he is not trained as their children were all trained at 18 months. I can't critisise them really because they are really helpful to me in terms of childcare and are very kind in general but somethig has happened today that has really upset me.

Ds came out of nursery - he only started 4 weeks ago and is really struggling due to tiredness. He came out looking absolutely shattered. PIL gave me a lift to the nursery to pick him up as I don't drive and we know how tired he is at the end of his sessions at the moment. Ds had held his wee for the entire time he was there (as he does normally) and as soon as we got back to PIL's house, he wet himself in his trousers and started to cry. MIL grabbed him, hoisted his trousers off and then forced him to sit on the toilet for at least 5 minutes. He was screaming, terrified and shouting for me. They said accusingly this child needs practice sitting on the toilet because this should not be happening.

They were cross that there was wee on their carpet and asked me to put a nappy on him. By this point DS was in complete meltdown mode and was smacking them and they just wouldn't leave him alone. I gave him a huge hug and tried to sit quietly with him on the sofa as I know that is the only way to get him out of his temper when he is shattered but they kept getting in his face telling him to be a good boy and then when he lashed out were shouting at him. I kept trying to tell him in a quiet way that he should not hit people but I knew they were judging me because a) they think I should tell him off more (DS is challenging and being evaluated for special needs at the moment. I have learnt to pick my battles and when he is in a meltdown, I know the only way is to sit quietly with him until he calms down). and b) They think I am a failure because he is not toilet trained yet.

I just feel awful now because not only do I know they think I'm an awful parent but because I feel I let Ds down massively. I think what they did could stall the mild success we have had lately because he was so freaked out at being made to sit on the toilet against his will. I prefer to gently coax him. I am so non confrontational, a bit of a wuss really but I wish I had acted on instinct and just grabbed DS from mil when she forced him and told her that is not what we do but I didn't want to hurt her feelings because she is trying to help. DP says they are upset because they spent 45 minutes cleaning up a wee on their carpet with a paper towel (?) on Sunday and have requested he wear a nappy at their house in future. I am worried because they look after him 1 day a week for us and don't want this happening on a regular basis. Have told my mum and she says I should have told them off and said she was disappointed in me. Dp thinks we are having such slow success, maybe we should try being tougher but says if what I saw upset me, he would support me in saying so. Am I being unreasonable in thinking those sort of methods don't work or is my softly softly approach not working so I need to get tougher?

If it's at all possible, op, I wouldn't be leaving him with them on Friday, really.

How long have they been looking after him? I would be concerned that his issues with the potty have come from their brand of toilet training that your not aware of IMO.

And had theirs trained at 18 motnhs? Do me a favour!

Birdy, if you know that DS holds on until he goes home from nursery, could you bring one of his own potties from home so that he can use it before you go anywhere else? I just thought if it was his potty and you were there encouraging him, and had a sweetie reward with you, he might just go for it. If he's really tired, use a pushchair to take him home. The exhaustion and delay in grasping training could well be related to special needs, and as the PIL are not experts they should have been more understanding.

The PIL reaction was truly awful, excessive and completely unnecessary. I would be extremely reluctant to allow them to care for DS anymore, as others have said, how could you possibly trust that they won't behave like this again, and undermine your training by putting a nappy on him as soon as you leave. I think that DP needs to back you up on this. It makes you wonder how he ever became toilet trained, probably by fear of punishment.

Good luck with it all. I think DS will be wary of them for a long time and not want to be with them, so I guess the PIL have punished themselves, but on the plus side they will have clean carpets. I hope they will come to realise exactly what they've done, and where their priorities should lie.

So the nursery gives him a pot every 30 mins and he performed twice into it. Presumably, as they had other children to look after, they left him to it and he was happy about it. Do you stand over him while he's sitting on his pot? What about 'trusting' him to do a wee or poo while you do something else in the same room or the next room with the door open. Ask him to let you know when he's finished. What about that? A three year old will understand what you have asked.

And yes, as other psters have suggested, allow him to watch your DH - who presumably has the same sort of bits - when he goes to the loo.

Early potty training is possible. It's called Elimination Communication these days and I did it. But, it should be non-coercive and a gentle process of learning.

I'm actually wondering the same thing about the root of his toilet phobia as Annpan88...

If this is how they feel it is acceptable to treat him (forcing him to sit on the toilet even when he has become hysterical, 'getting in his face', shouting, threatening behaviour), and they have been having him on a regular basis, I think you may have found the cause of your DS's toilet phobia.

There is no way I would let them have him on Friday. Or for quite a long time.

You don't want to cause offence? If that had been me, they wouldn't have known what had hit them. I think you very much need to cause offence. Before your DS's evident fear of them turns into permanent dislike, and before he learns that when it comes to granny and grandad's nasty behaviour, his mummy won't protect him.

Lots of good words already so will just add that DS was dry at 3.4 but it was a long process. Possibly the thing that cracked it for him was cleaning up the mess himself. Never wet the floor again. Intrestingly he was dry at night before 2!

If you're going to try and toilet-train early, it's essential that there's some level of consistency, and a mountain of kindness.

Slamming a confused toddler repeatedly on a toilet/potty one day a week is so far from effective, and so guaranteed to cause issues, that someone should patent it for a book on How Not to Bring Up Children!

Could you persuade ds to go to the loo/potty at nursery when you pick him up, maybe get him to show you how he does it there or something. And take bribe along with you- sweetie, chocolate, whatever works for him. And then show it to him as you ask him to go to the loo at nursery then give it to him when you walk out of nursery.

If you do this consistently you might be able to persuade him to make a habit of going before he leaves and then that will lessen the chance of an accident afterwards at your PIL.

I am so so sorry for you and your DS and totally understand as I recently went through the same thing. We were getting nowhere fast with potty training and my increasing anxiety was being transmitted to my DS (same age as yours). A couple of people remarked to me that I was stressing him out and that I should just relax. I did just that - totally took my foot off the pedal and a couple of days later, things began to fall into place. Hurrah! Now, as regards your in-laws, their frankly disgusting behaviour and hysterical overreaction will not help at all and, in fact will massively counter-productive. If you can get different child care in place whilst you go through this stage then do it. They are clearly more concerned with their blessed carpets than your DS.

I "potty trained" DS1 at 2 years and it was hell he was so not ready and was still having accident 18months later. Left DS2 til he was 3 and a bit and it took a month (day and night). DS3 took his nappy off at 2 years 10 months and cracked it a week (still wet at night and he's now 7 but we''l get there). Left DD til she was 3 and she cracked it in 2 days.
They will only do it when they are ready and your in laws sounf vile. I do wonder if your lovely little DS has been put off by your IL's if this is how they behave towards him.

Apologies for typos

As PPs have said, our parents' generation used to potty train earlier - that was more about training themselves than the child, from what my MIL has said. She would put DH on the potty every 15 mins or so, from the age of 1, presumably in the hope of catching a wee in there, rather than have to deal with a wet terry nappy. He wouldn't have understood what he was doing or why at that age.

She started suggesting we potty train DD when she was 1 too. Ridiculous, so we ignored her suggestion. DD wasn't ready to come out of nappies until she was 3.3, and then she was done in two days, because she understood what it was all about.

There is absolutely no point in trying to get a child to come out of nappies until they are ready, and the more you stress about it the worse it well get for the child. We had a couple of false starts before DD was finally ready, and the carpet was regularly soaked with wee, which took on average 2/3 mins to clean up :).

I would of done my nut if someone had done that to my child I am currently potty training my ds who is 2.2 & it took me ages to get him on the potty I think your approach to it works but your in laws should not if done that cos now it could set him back or even make him frightened of the potty or toilet I would have words with them & say this I how we do it please appreciate our way & do it our way. My mil had all her kids clean day & night by the age of 2 but she has never falsed ds on a potty or toilet it like she says in their day all kids was dry by 2 max but now days some children take longer & parents should go with the Childs flow & not their own I hope this helps I wish u the best of luck with the training

My DS struggled with potty training. What worked for him was putting him in pull ups which gave him control (he is very stubborn and likes to have control) because he could go to the loo when he recognised that he needed to but he wasn't stressed by the occasional accident. He skipped the potty stage and refused to sit on the loo but had great success with standing up like Daddy.

Once we cracked the weeing in the loo we were similarly patient about encouraging him to sit down to poo. Again copying Daddy helped.

But the best piece of advice I was given was that "boys are slow to toilet train but all of them make it by the time they are 18 or at least enough to not need a nappy". This made me laugh and totally took the stress out of the situation.

Good luck - you are a great Mum and none of us do everything right all of the time. Forgive yourself for not making a stand.

Thank you, thank you so much to those of you who have responded. It has really helped me today and I'm going to take alot of the advice on board. The nursery want him in pants there so I know we just have to see it through now.

I have managed to arrange for my sister in law to have DS on Friday so I don't need to worry this week.

After speaking to DP, we think the best thing to do is print something off the internet that indicates that we should never force a reluctant child to sit on the toilet as it sets them back and say we have spoke to the health visitor and they have encouraged our gentle, positive approach. We will see them on saturday and i'm going to tell them that I don't want him being forced to sit on the toilet if he seems scared to do so. I don't think they will like it but I have got to do it.

On a positive note, he has had a lovely day at nursery today and done 2 wees on the potty (in return for ice cream but never mind)