AIBU to think people shouldnt be getting money for having children?

[normality]

i know it is is controversal but i dont understand why some people feel the entitlement to get money for having children and aibu to think it should stop?

I think that if people want children then they should have them but they should not feel they are entitled for some kind of monetary hand out for having them

I especially feel like getting money for being pregnant like the sure start grant, maternity grant, healthy start vouchers ect should not happen because if you cant afford to have a child why should the goverment pay you to do this? what about the people who do not have any children and choose not to or can not why should they miss out on multiple grants and vouchers when they are paying more and more taxes to support the people who choose to have children and then choose not to work?

• i have a dd and although i wanted a large family i could not afford to have more than one child so stopped but never claimed any grants ect because i did not want to be paid for being pregnant as it was my choice

Well, if they were given a 2 bed house and knew that was all they would get, would they choose to have 4 children? If CB was cut to 2 would they think about what they were doing, perhaps not, perhaps they wouldnt care, having 4 children in one room would be fine, or perhaps it wouldnt. And I wouldnt call them scumbags tbh

tether, 2 ways have been proposed in the thread already.

1. you do it the way that Belgium has done it (subsidise children via significant tax break incentives)

2. you do it the American way of food vouchers / structure the welfare system so that it's almost impossible for people to not have a work ethic - this point hasn't been made explicitly but is mentioned in the JH documentary we're referring to - Poland is another example of this

Neither alternative system is without its flaws, but both have benefits the way the current UK system hasn't.

I don't think anyone's arguing that a particular system is perfect, btw - I know I'm not.

wonders where you go to get all this money when you have loads of kids, i have 5 and i could use some more money!

That fecking child benefit!....why won't it stop!...oh yeah,it is soon.

There is no way for the system to continue the way it has it has bred a culture of people never working because they have children or because they are lazy so it needs to be over hauled

There needs to be a limit money can not just be thrown at people any more just because they have children it needs to be done in a better way and there needs to be a actual discussion about it not just posts being snide because that does. It solve anything nor does it provide any progress to the discussion

As to the point about the four children if that family knew money would be stopped after 2 children do you think they would have stopped or had more children knowing they would no be entitled to any more money?

Op were you educated in the British system?

The couple who refuse to work and have 4 children, do they really spend the money on the children or themselves?

no, no-one able to tell me where i can get all this money then?!!

I don't think anyone would get pregnant, just to get a sure start grant or any other benefits, but I don't agree with these benefits.

When my parents had us (4 of us), they couldn't afford to buy everything new, so they lived within their means and bought a second hand pram and got a lot of hand me downs. When we were kids we had hand-me-downs, but my parents (Dad) still worked hard to provide for us. My Mum was a SAHM whilst we were young and worked hard, on a budget, to provide everything we needed.

In my parents day, there was only family allowance. They didn't receive any handouts/grants etc, so why should todays parents expect the same.

I only have 1 DS, because that is all I can afford. I do get family allowance, but I have never been entitled to anything else. Why should I work hard, to pay for other parents to be able to buy a pram or a cot.

Too many people in this country think it is acceptable to rely on state handouts for everything.

4mad - someone is getting it, the welfare state is costing billions.

Marriedinwhite, yes the people on the estates where you live can try and pull themselves out of poverty by using the working tax / child tax credit system and taking employment, if they are not employed already, but they will find quickly that there is a point at which they can make maximum gain and get the full WTC for part time hours, then if they try to work more hours or for more money, suddenly their benefits are means tested in such a way the increases in the salary with decreases in benefits mean it's just not worth the extra effort to work, like those mothers in Liverpool in Humphrey's programme. The Belgian system of tax breaks does not simply disappear and taper off like the UK system, no-one round here deliberately doesn't work more than 18 hours or whatever it is under WTC in order to avoid losing their tax breaks. The UK's welfare system is no longer fit for purpose.

It has become easy I think to make decisions, have a bay with someone you hardly know, choose not to work, have 3 or more children, smoke, have the latest mobile phone, those are all choices that people make. During the riots in Aug just think of what was taken, it wasnt food and supplies, it was iPad's and the latest technology.

So poor people should not have children, is that what you're saying?

You have to be careful here, you are talking about PEOPLE, human beings and your points of view seem to stem from resentment which is really going rub the wrong way.

FYI, I was in a steady job lving with a partner, (my ds father), when I became pregnant. Halfway throught pregnancy I became redundant and the father ran off never to be seen again, leaving me in debt. I had to move, and I struggled as a sole single parent with a baby, and PND. And you're telling me you begrudge that I got free milk and a Sure Start grant that helped me buy a pram and a cot for my baby????

I was educated in public school in England

If the welfare system was over hauled the money saved could be channeled into sure start centres, schools, the nhs and debt repayment For example

You would never guess!

It IS being overhauled!

People on low incomes SHOULD be supported. They are not living off the state, I would not begrudge any money going to those people to help them learn new skills, provide child care etc but it has become acceptable to live off benefits forever! We cannot give food vouchers because people would be embarassed, well I use vouchers all the time. What's to be embarrassed about. The view that ALL the people on benefits are moing from shop to shop to try and find the cheapest tin of beans is rot, not around here they arent.

I'm not saying the sytem is perfect but the conditions in which many people live do nothing to instill any sense of pride or any hope that individual situations can be made better. Options for people who live on those estates are either to move 100's of miles from their families and what they know to improve their living conditions or to suck up what they have. Another thread on here has lambasted the op for moving from her roots and having the audacitiy to seek a little empathy for it when it was in pursuit of her dh finding work. When a three bed house even on the estates is a £250,000 and a small terrace off the estates is £750,00 choices don't leap off the page to grab you.

The system does need to change but it can't change overnight and needs to be changed incrementally. I agree the system is not fit for purpose but I don't want it to change so quickly and with too little fault to result in children suffering - the children that already have the prospect of poor outcomes, who are already consigned to the schools in poor catchments, who already have limited choices ahead of them.

No Rocky 12 it is not the entire city of Glasgow that has 20% of adults (under a certain age) that have never worked. It was a very, very small, very socially deprived district that (allegedly) has that honour along with several areas of London and some other cities whose names I have forgotten.

There is definately a flaw in the system somewhere though. A good friend of mine, and her DH both don't work, both smoke, have top end laptops, mobiles etc. They have 2 DDs and are TTC. Her DH was offered a job recently, but had he taken it, they would have been £9 per week WORSE off! The amount they spend on technology, ciggies etc is a permanant bone of contention between us, but ummm, whats my point here? Oh yea, they are better off on benefits!!

So are you English op?

It seems to be more than acceptable to make snide comments about people who went to private school (I didnt btw!) What if someone starting scoffing at the people who went to the local comp (me!). There would be complete uproar. So can some posters drop the chip on their shoulder about private education

Please tell me you are not including people with disabilities, after all, some of them need state support, they are still entitled to have children.