AIBU to think people shouldnt be getting money for having children?

[normality]

i know it is is controversal but i dont understand why some people feel the entitlement to get money for having children and aibu to think it should stop?

I think that if people want children then they should have them but they should not feel they are entitled for some kind of monetary hand out for having them

I especially feel like getting money for being pregnant like the sure start grant, maternity grant, healthy start vouchers ect should not happen because if you cant afford to have a child why should the goverment pay you to do this? what about the people who do not have any children and choose not to or can not why should they miss out on multiple grants and vouchers when they are paying more and more taxes to support the people who choose to have children and then choose not to work?

• i have a dd and although i wanted a large family i could not afford to have more than one child so stopped but never claimed any grants ect because i did not want to be paid for being pregnant as it was my choice

You know I sometimes think I'm entering some othe planet when I come on here. Why on earth would someone on 100k a year need a monatery incentive to have children? What the bloody hell are they doing with all that money to not be able to afford children and why if 100k is not enough do they begrudge others who are not so fortunate a couple of hundred a week benefits .

You'd think it would be the working class that would have a problem with those living on benefits, especially those that are earning just a little bit too much to be entitled to help but no, it always seems to be the very well off that have the problem.

And your probably right usual they would keep us as pets. Although who would feed us and clean up after us?

See I'm on benefits and disabled and a single parent and about to move into a council place < think I ticked all boxed does than mean I can have 4 goats > so according to Xenia probably should not have kids

But you know what xenia I mange to look after my kids without the help of a nanny or a carer or a cleaner and dc are achieving well so there goes your theory

I personally hope my dc grow up to have more compassion and more understanding than you .

Ineed

There may be there but there is nothing here to help with cost of trips I know I asked. Got told you can not afford well sorry bit he can not go .

Even his history teacher tried to ask for help do ds2 could go as ds2 works hard and is on target to get really good marks but got turned down

Oh my hearts bleeds for the people who can't live in Chelsea

I don't meet many rich or influential people who share Xenia's views.

It's a good job if she's in the minority , I'm becoming to wonder if the government share her views though

"It is scientifically impossible for a child, under normal circumstances (eg. Special Needs) to have a child with a lower intellect than the parents."

Both you and Xenia are wrong. What actually happens is that there is a drift towards the average in terms of intelligence. There are no absolutes and always exceptions. But in general someone very intelligent is more likely to have a child of average to high intelligence. Someone of low intelligence is more likely to have a child of low to average intelligence.

But intelligence is not the same as academic achievement, although there is obviously a strong correlation. Research shows when comparing a poor child of high intelligence and a well off child of average intelligence that the well off child will usually (not alaways) do better academically than the poor child.

low social mobily in the UK means that children from wealthy household are likely to be more sucessful financially than children from lower income households.

i think it is wrong, but it is true.

*Dawndonna Thu 03-Nov-11 20:24:50

You don't have the right to tell a working couple how many children to have so you shouldn't have the right to tell a disabled person how many children to have, regardless of who provides their income.*

i agree - but when the number of children most working people can have have is limited by their income, then the number of children non working people can have should be limited by their income also.

then both groups are treated the same in all regards.

Dies anyone actually know how much extra you get for your 3 rd?

Does

if you are working £19.40 per week CB and higher-rate taxpayers will not receive this benefit from 2013

I don't get £19 for my 3rd and I mean how much child tax credit do you get for a 3rd

lesley, that's all I meant - we all know about the drift towards the average although I do sometimes think some of the benefit claimants do my work for me in proving what I say through their own words. The drift towards the average has been well known for decades. Obviously if you're both 150+ your child will be clever and if you're both average IQ of 100 you will be not too bright but there is that drift down too which is what I said above.

My points above are simply that some very hardworking mothers feel they are no better off than those who don't work at all and the mood of the nation has changed mostly because we've run out of money so things are changing for the undeserving poor. That doesn't mean jobs are ten a penny of course. It's a very difficult economic climate.

As for the fascinating issue of whether governments should reward the idle who choose to have larger families which those who work hard would adore to have but cannot afford of course it shouldn't. However it needs to ensure those children born of feckless parents do not overly suffer so it's always been a difficult balance to get right.

It hardly neesd to be said that life is tough for chidlren in poverty and many will never work however good state schools on sink estates are particularly if your parents are on drugs and do not care for you. Thus to encourage those who are in work to have chidlren and those who aren't not to is definitely a very sound policy.

Child Tax Credit - £ per year (unless stated)
Rates and Thresholds April 2010 April 2011
Child Tax Credit Family element £545 £545
Family element, baby addition £545 Withdrawn
Child element £2,300 £2,555
Disabled child element £2,715 £2,800
Severely disabled child element £1,095 £1,130

Moominsarescary, according to the entitled to site.

2 adults not working with 2 children would get(weekly):

£105.95 JSA, £108.29 CTC, and £33.70 CHB.

2 adults not working with 3 children would get:

£105.95 JSA, £157.22 CTC, and £47.10 CHB.

So an extra, £48.93 CTC and an extra £13.40 CHB, £62.33 in total.

Re: the rich keeping the poor as pets; isn't this what happens in eg Inner London gentrification so you can restore your original features and still keep the 'local colour'? Not so much fun for the local colour who are socially cleansed priced out.

All the emotive language seems to come from the poor. Why would anyone want to keep someone poor as pets? I would certainly encourage people with daughters to ensure they obtain qualifications and seek well paid jobs as life can be easier if that be so. I would also prefer an education system where the bright poor could access the schooling of the rich through vouchers and state grammar schools and it is a pity that route has been closed now.

We certainly are going to need a lot of tax payers to pay the pensions of all those who will soon retire and live for 30 years on their state pension. So encouraging immigration or those whose chidlren will pay a lot of tax to have children is obviousl, the way to go.

its likely to get much more emotive from the side of the taxpayer over the next few years.

DP has Crohn's disease. He was up from 3:30 this morning - in pain - until he went to work at 7am. He should get home 6:30 tonight. Most the time his face lined with pain.

High rate tax payer in a socially valuable job (HT who turned around a failing primary school).

His DB lives on IB & has done for 10 yrs. His DB works the system - a lazy, lying so & so.

Obviously for some people disablity unsurmoutable. e.g. my Dad was profoundly paralysed in this sixties (unable to sit, swallow, arms useless, walking completly impossible). he worked until he was unable to climb one flight of stairs so could not make it to his office.

so benefits for some people - yes, benefits for all people who claim them at the moment? no, i think there are better ways of spending DPs and my dads taxes.

Xenia that's disgusting.

why is that disgusting? which bit?

so its a fallacy to think the most ill people are on IB.

the other untruth perpetuated on this thread is if you work you get to choose how many children you have. out of my 4 closest friends, everyone works:

1 is a rape victim from a high profile case and she wont have children
1 has two children, would like more but cannot afford it
1 is single
1 does get to chose
& me - hopefully will have one or 2.

so thats 20% at best get to choose, so back to the original question: YANBU.

Again Xenia, you are talking rubbish. You say you are pro immigration but do you realise that in areas like London immigrants are dispropriately in need of social housing? What you actually mean is you are pro cheap labour or only affluent immigrants. You don't acknowledge the lack of housing which means that many disabled children and their families live in appalling circumstances. Imagine carrying a twelve year old up eight floors for example. The problem with this country is that it is full of gobby shites like you who love the sound of their own voice but have ever stepped foot on a council estate or met anyone who has in their lives.

I don't really need to say much to prove my points so do all carry on.