AIBU to think people shouldnt be getting money for having children?

[normality]

i know it is is controversal but i dont understand why some people feel the entitlement to get money for having children and aibu to think it should stop?

I think that if people want children then they should have them but they should not feel they are entitled for some kind of monetary hand out for having them

I especially feel like getting money for being pregnant like the sure start grant, maternity grant, healthy start vouchers ect should not happen because if you cant afford to have a child why should the goverment pay you to do this? what about the people who do not have any children and choose not to or can not why should they miss out on multiple grants and vouchers when they are paying more and more taxes to support the people who choose to have children and then choose not to work?

• i have a dd and although i wanted a large family i could not afford to have more than one child so stopped but never claimed any grants ect because i did not want to be paid for being pregnant as it was my choice

Come and live in my house then you'll see how it works. Have you got any idea about this apart from the 'cost to the taxpayer'? Can family members help? They do. They pay tax. They raise children who work in Social Services. My dd will grow up and hopefully relieve the world of the grossly crass ignorance shown on here.

I am a carer, I care for my disabled husband, we have children. Should we not get any benefits?

I don't think people are being ignorant Julia. People are entitled to ask questions about the system.

I can see where Dawndonna is coming from being a carer which must be really hard work but I think like anyone else the disabled,unemployed or employed should be sensible about family planning.

like anyone else the disabled, unemployed or employed should be sensible about family planning.

yes - everyone should plan for their family & not be unduly relying on others.

if some people get to have as many children as they like, thats only fair if we all get to do that...only who would pick up the bill?

My sister is a learning disability nurse, she works in the community and supports many clients who have children and are very good parents.

I trained as a mental health nurse and worked with many clients who had children and were good parents.

Would you have it that none of these children were born?

Moominsarescary I would have it that the government dose not support them

I always wonder about people who claim their to sick to work but seem to be able to look after children

Feed them
Play with them
Wake up during the night
Rock them
Push prams
Attend appointments

Ect but on the dal form they are down as barley being able to wall no doubt

But thank god we have a sensible government who are butting thus to bed the bill is going ahead as we speak

No. My personal perference is that the State supports everyone financially for up to 2 children then the support tapers.

yes, all I am saying is that everyone needs to be sensible about the amount of children they are having especially if they are not bringing in money and relying on the state for support.

Moomin I am sure they are excellent parents. that was not the issue.

Surely that they are great parents is the most important thing?

Many of the people me and my sister have worked with will never get jobs, some because they can't work and others because noone will give them the chance and employ them.

The same as some people with disabilities, there are so many things they can't do that we take for granted. If they can have children and do a great job of raising them why shouldn't they and why should they be limited to two because of circumstances out of their control.

Some may not be good parents and may carryon having them regardless but why punish those who do a good job.

What about single parents who have more than two children and then suffer a disability. Should they only receive money for the first two

You say that as if it's a given because your disabled you need to relay on the state many disabled people work surly if you well enough to look after 4 children your well enough ot nanny or child mind and not rely on the state

I suppose you could argue that at least in this country the disabled are supported and have the option of financial help if they have a family.

Moo - i was talking about a system that was fair because everyone gets help for 2.

I dont think I agree with the idea of someone being a 'great parent'. what one person thinks is good, another might not. who decides what the criteria are? surely everyone only needs to be a good enough parent?

I've never said it's a given

Many people with learning disabilities and mh problems wouldn't pass the course and I worked with a girl with mh problems who was refused a college place because of previous psychosis .

Then there Is the problem with employment, unfortunately there can be stigmas attached to mh and ld , so many people wouldn't employ them to look after their children.

Oh and I can guarantee none of the clients I've worked with have put that they can't walk on their dla forms

What did my post above say that was deleted? That's pretty rare as I never descend to abuse etc. it seems to have been one of two or three innocuous questions baout why or whether we have so many disabled chidlren of mumsnetters but I can't remember exactly what had been said.

The issues on the thread are is you cannot support your children should you be allowed to have 12 funded by tax payers. Iv'e not been on the thread today because I've been working to pay the vast amounts of tax I generate to keep my own stable of non tax paying benefit claimants. I'm sure they are very grateful.

Over 90% of us support the welfare state. We never know when we'll need it etc and we want others to be cared for but there are disincentives to work and there is too easy a life in getting the money. If it were pretty hard if you got it because you were picking litter or making carpets at home or whatever then we might have fewer people choosing a life on benefits. It's there that the public mood has changed. It's a pity it's changed when there are no jobs to be had but it has changed when we have run out of money to fund the current system so something is now being done.

Xenia totally agree the mood has changed and I think people now work longer for less and are now sick of seeing people simply choose not to work

And we see form the riots what idleness and entitlement bring
Labour tried paying the poor and the public sector off

Now people are faintly opening their eyes and seeing we have to cut our cloth accordingly

The small hole in labours plan was of course is a large section of the people they were paying off namely the loafers don't vote

Their should be a safety net but under labour it became a double bed with feather down pillows in which you never had to leave

xenia you usually get a pm or an email about why your post was deleted from mnhq i think? and some of your posts about disabled children and their families have been pretty revolting recently, i have seen others that have also got deleted.

xenia i think it was the comment about women earning £100k should get a tax break to have children.

I have never made a revolting post about the disabled ever. My sister had down's syndrome. Show me a revolting post of mine about the disabled?

I checked. I didn't get an email. I think it must haveb een one sentence asking why more people were disabled or were more these days. I just can't remember anything objectionable. It's not important.

Ah that post, tilly. Yes, that's a political view surely? That's interseting it woudl be censored. Do we have to have the left wing politics of the web site down's husband who works for the Guardian? I suppose it's mumsnet not mummies net so got to be a bit down market.

I said we want people who earn a lot to have a lot of chidlren (as indeed plenty of countries encourage as those children tend to be the ones who do better ni life, at school work harder) rather than the benefits claimants with 12 children.I really don't think expressing a view that the children of the rich do better in society and in terms of working hard and paying taxes than the children of the poor is so politically objectionable it should be removed from a forum.

Egypt has jailed a blogger. China is always at it. Surely int eh UK was can cope with a view that it might be better through taxes to encourage women like I am to have large families and not benefits claimants? It's a fact - someone prove me wronge. My chidlren will pay masses of tax and do well and the chidlren of most people on benefits will not. Therefore if instead we had big tax breaks for the rich who have children and only support say 2 children of the poor (which countless mumsnetters are suggesting - benefits for 2 children only) is a really great idea.

Ah well off to earn more of a crust to support my little quota of benefits claimants.

xenia its a bit hard to show you a post when the objectionable ones have been deleted and i have seen other posts of yours on other threads where you have been unpleasant towards diabled children or their parents and those comments have been deleted.

Well Xenia i think big tax breaks for childcare would be a good thing. DP & i will need a nanny so that would be one more person employed and one less person claiming benefits/competing for other jobs, so a good thing all round.

there was quite a lot of hysteria on this thread....

Xenia, if it's that downmarket feel free to find the door. You're frequently rude and objectionable, just as you were in the last post above.
As a benefit claimant with a degree, my children, with special needs will also pay high taxes. Ds1 already does, although he has no special needs.
You sit in your ivory tower, making judgements about lives of which you have no comprehension, and have no intention of comprehending. Life is not just about money and status and I'm very much afraid that one day you will learn the hard way.
Yes, I know you qualified by stating that most people on benefits will not succeed, but it's fairly obvious that you look down on those of us that are on benefits, for whatever reason. But hey, that's okay, I know that I'm brighter than you, that I generally use my intelligence wisely and that I'm a far nicer person than you.

I don't look down on anyone.

I simply made the point that the Governmetn wants more educated high paid women to have babies adn fewer of those on the poverty line to do so for obvious reasons. Therefore if the tax and benefit system ensure that those on benefits have a lot of children and those who earn more don't that's not exactly what is in the best interests of the nation.

France I think had or has a big tax break if you get to 4 or more children althoguh I'm not suggesting most people have babies for the tax breaks.

However it's a fascinating issue. Around the globe today and in the past family size has had such huge implications. In many many countries a large familiy particularly of boys has meant you were assured of people to earn and to look after you in old age thus you have a lot of chidlren because it means you are better off. I am waiting to some of my lot to support me.. laughing as I type.

(I have never written much about the disabled and I don't remember any post of mine ever deleted except the one today so I doubt I have a reputation of writing very objectionable things about disabled people which are then deleted,. it's just not so. I am not particularly interested ni the disabled so I would rarely go on a thread about them. I have said that I love the conversations I can have with my chidlren and if they had a low IQ I would mis that debate but that's simply a fact. I like to have dinners with clever people and most of us choose our friends accordingly. Good banter/ chat or whatever you call it rules...)

Just posting to back 4mad's assertions as I've been asked to.
Xenia has previously been deleted for disparaging remarks and questioning regarding parents with sn kids. here

Hi GK - i cannot see anything on the link - can you please explain again.

What makes me laugh is that Xenia is the Greek Goddess of generosity and courtesy!