AIBU to think people shouldnt be getting money for having children?

[normality]

i know it is is controversal but i dont understand why some people feel the entitlement to get money for having children and aibu to think it should stop?

I think that if people want children then they should have them but they should not feel they are entitled for some kind of monetary hand out for having them

I especially feel like getting money for being pregnant like the sure start grant, maternity grant, healthy start vouchers ect should not happen because if you cant afford to have a child why should the goverment pay you to do this? what about the people who do not have any children and choose not to or can not why should they miss out on multiple grants and vouchers when they are paying more and more taxes to support the people who choose to have children and then choose not to work?

• i have a dd and although i wanted a large family i could not afford to have more than one child so stopped but never claimed any grants ect because i did not want to be paid for being pregnant as it was my choice

whatmeworry - I don't actually think middle class women don't have babies for financial reasons. I think it is because they have the choice of whether to have babies or not and some decide they don't want to.

I also think the increasing pressure on parents and especially mums to do a great job around parenting, probably has a bigger impact on middle class women's decisions about babies. Expectations are now so high and it takes so much time and often money to parent in the "right way".

Whereas at one time, although looking after babies was still tiring and demanding, I do think the expectations were less. So it was fine to leave youyr pram with baby in while you went in the shop. And it was fine to put your baby at the bottom of the garden in his pram for a few hours every day.

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. Full stop.

Yes thats true. Id never had had my 5 children had it not been for my healthy start grant and my child benefit. It allows for my designer shopping habit and gourmet restaurants

Whilst we do a certain number of children to continue to pay taxes in future, that only works if they actually go on to work. Many children raised on benefits go on to repeat the claim cycle themselves.

Our benefit system does encourage people to breed, there are still those who believe its the parents responsibility to provide for the children they chose to have but there are those who have children with no thought at all as to how they will support them as they know the state will. Its no wonder our teen pregnancy rate is so high.

On this site alone there will be many posts re people having children whilst not in a position to afford them, people expecting a bigger house as they choose to increase their family, people who believe it is their right not to work or cite a million excuses as to why they cant despite being able bodied.

A good overhaul is needed, the recent cuts dont do that much. If they scrapped all child related benefits and copied other countries in state assistance then perhaps personal responsibility etc would return. Completely get rid of tax credits and use the money to give highly subsidised childcare so that everybody gets treated the same and bears the same responsibility.

The irony is that Western Europe has falling birth rates, which is contributing to the conundrum of how to fund an ageing population. Perhaps in a few years time we'll be discussing ways to incentivise parents to have more children as a solution to that problem?

Just so everyone can understand where I'm coming from on this - I was made redundant three months before I found out I was pregnant. I was 20 and living with my partner in a rented room of my parents house.

(It was a complete accident and I still have no idea how it happened - I was on the pill AND we were using condoms! Oh well - c'est la vie!)

Because I was unemployed, I was on Jobseekers Allowance. I went to the Job Centre every other day to look for work. I read newspapers, signed up to job mailing lists, went on Monster daily, used the Job Centre website, asked around friends and periodically did a full-scale CV drop of all the shops on the high street in my nearest major city.

The people at the Job Centre were ludicrously unhelpful. I signed on every fortnight and it was just so they could rubberstamp my "proof" of what jobs I've looked for. I asked one to do a search on their computer for jobs that may suit me and I was told "it's not my job", even though I'd seen it being done previously.

When I told them I was pregnant, it was like warping into another reality.

"Oooooh, congratulations! Well, you'll have to switch to income support and you can claim that with your partner. You can get Child Benefit and Child Tax Credits, here's the form for the Sure Start Maternity Grant, we'll put you onto the list for a nice house of your own - and then of course you'll be wanting your rent and Council Tax taken care of! Can't have you worrying, not with a baby on the way!"

I was so fucking insulted I walked out without another word.

Whilst I disagree with the OP on having NO financial help, I will say that the aid you get if you are pregnant is so huge that it's no wonder I know several women with a plethora of children in tow, each with a different father.

Yes they give you the keys to a nice house as soon as you tell them you are pregnant

usualsuspect - Of course they don't do that. But for women with few qualifications and who feel they have few choices in their life, having a baby does kind of make sense.

OP - have you ever heard the term 'folk devils'.

Your posts are devoid of statistics, real data, real evidence to back up your arguments. How many people are actually out there deliberately having kids in order to get benefits and a house. How black and white is it?

Other posters have pointed to the fact that people find themselves reliant on benefits for a range of reasons (death of spouse, depression, ill-health etc) The State machine is not sophisticated enough to provide a bespoke child benefits system which can distinguish between cases. It's a one size fits all approach. Everybody is treated the same. SO, by your rules, everybody claiming benefits for their children, including those who legitimately need support, would be punished. But for the sins of WHO?

I want to know exactly who these feckless people are, where is the data to show where they live, how many there are and EXACTLY how much money they are taking out of the state. You can't point to the evidence because your argument is built entirely on a moral panic, fueled by the right-wing. Fear and lies.

Stealth Penguin - I don't believe the job centre deals with local authority housing.

DH's Grandad left school on his 14th birthday to go down the mine. His teacher begged for him to be allowed to stay at school because he was so clever. He was the eldest of 9 and him working was the difference between food or no food. They lived in a two up two down cottage. I am glad society has moved on - not necessarily in completely the right direction but things have improved.

UsualSuspect - was that to me?

Sorry, but I don't quite see why the sarcasm is needed - I didn't say they'd throw me the keys to a nice house, nor did I say I wanted one! They offered to put me on a housing list, along with multiple offers of other financial help, and I walked out because I found it unbelievably insulting.

I'm just relaying what she said to me - there's no need to be so prickly.

Yes op, can we have some links please, to back up all this 'stuff' you are spouting?

And I have no idea who deals with it, but that's what she said to me. Whether it was right or wrong. And since I have no desire to go onto any kind of housing list, I don't have a clue where someone would go.

So you don't get insulted every month be accepting child benefit either, stealth??

scott - I work with "challenging" families. Some of the teenage girls in these families do decide to have a baby when they know they will be reliant on state benefits, at least in the short term. I actually think their decision to have a baby kind of makes sense as they often think they have very few options to improve their life.

But this is a very small number of young girls/women. The majority of women on benefits imo are on them for very different reasons.

Oh for Gods sake. Did NOONE understand the point I was trying to make.

I was trying to better myself by looking for a job. They were unhelpful to the point of hindrance. I accidentally get pregnant and BOOM! All of a sudden I have them bending over backwards to try and desperately help me.

That is why I was insulted. Every time I post anywhere I get attacked from a total blind-side by idiots who just want to pick holes in my posts.

Or is someone going to have a go at me for forgetting the questionmark at the end of my sentence?

Stealth..... The benefit system has moved on somewhat to what you are describing!

Sorry OP, are you under the impression that child benefit is a gift given for having a child? The clue is in its name, you know.

Your child will benefit when she reaches an age you feel is right to give her the money. My child benefits monthly when I buy him new clothes. shoes, food and nappies.

Get down from your high horse.

on another thread it's suggested we should get diamonds

Really?! Then how come that was in January of this year? Or am I just making it up to be inflammatory ?

That's my experience with them. Next time you post an anecdote I hope you don't get the same people bitching about you and claiming that it's false.

Unfortunately most people who work with young women in care and just out of it will tell you that pregnancies are deliberate.

This is NOT the same as 'popping out babies' to get housing and money.
Care leavers are thankfully already entitled to housing, they dont need a baby to get it.

Its far more complex and a lot sadder than a generation of young girls cynically manipulating the system to their advantage.

But the real story is harder to froth and foam about

Innit

Well people have already pointed out that housing isn't dealt with in a jobcentre....and nobody was forcing any benefits on you.