Who do we blame?

[ChrissasMissis]

I'm pretty sure AINBU. Perhaps I'm being naive or even wildly optimistic, but I cannot for the life of me fathom why men still believe that wives/girlfriends/partners expected to shoulder ALL domestic responsibility?

Who is perpetuating this? I know for a fact that my OH SEES mess, is CAPABLE of cleaning it up and UNDERSTANDS that domestic chores need to be undertaken. However, it usually takes five or six prompts from me first.

My mother made me seethe about this earlier, when I complained that all my careful efforts to keep on top of mess/chores etc...had been undone by OH over the course of the weekend. She told me that I'm a housewife now and it's my job. I have had a baby - this does not automatically make me in charge of the home. Yes, I am on maternity leave at present, but will be going back to work shortly and what happens when I do...?

I am determined that my DS will not grow up to believe he is entitled to waited on.

Rat over.

Sorry.

YANBU... keep ratting (sic). Also keep prompting. Lazy types (and they can be both male and female, shock horror revelation) work on the basis that you'll get fed up nagging, leave them alone, and do the work yourself. Never fall for that old trick. Oh and tell mum to get into the 21st century before it's too late ....

i think if one works full time, and the other doesnt, then yes the one who is at home should be responsible for the majority of the domestic chores

Sorry! In my fury, my spelling has taken a hit...!!

I trained DP like a dog. Repetition - Reward - Repetition - Reward - repeat-to-fade. All domestic tasks are split 50/50 chez 'Pru.

NellyMelba, I take your point. However, OH and I took the decision TOGETHER to have a child and all that that entailed...the fact that I am temporarily not working does not, I believe, absolve him of all responsibility.

Agreed. I am a SAHM, and as a result do a lot of the household chores throughout the day. BUt when DH is at home, we both take responsibility. It would be churlish to sit on my arse all day long while he's at work and split the housework exactly 50/50 when he gets in, but I also believe that we should get about the same amount of free time. So we both pitch in, do all the boring shit that needs doing and then get to sit down in the evening and relax. Oh, and I have DS's who are both capable of emptying the dishwasher, fetching the dirty washing downstairs, tidying their rooms and taking care of their pets. They are 11 and 8. Having a penis or not does not a house drudge make.

@NellyMelba... the one at home is going to pick up most of the domestic chores because they've got the time to do it. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't expect help. And it doesn't mean partner #2 is entitled to turn the place into a bear-pit and expect someone else to clean up their mess. In our house (1 adult 1 biggish child) I'm the one responsible for everything , full-stop. But that doesn't mean I don't expect (and get) help

Back to your initial question of who is to blame, the fact that DP was not pre-trained when I took over his custodianship was due to his upbringing, observing the woman in the home do all of the "housework" (even though she worked too) and she never taught him otherwise.

No word of a lie, Himself is emptying the bins as we speak.

I'm a SAHM and refer to the childcare/housework/shopping etc as my "work". I then plan and organise it in the way that works most efficiently and cost-effectively for our household, therefore some of it is outsourced, some is job-share, some I delegate, and some I do myself, according to the time and budget I have available (can you tell I used to be a manager?!). I don't sit on the sofa watching daytime TV, unless I happen to be feeding the baby and don't have anything else I can be usefully doing on the iPad at the same time.

But it's a 24/7 job. No holidays, no sick pay. No reviews, rewards or bonuses (unless you can agree some with your DH?).

Many evenings and weekends, my DH Has to bring work home. On those occasions, I cut him some slack regarding the DCs and housework. But on other evenings and weekends, I ask for his help. The ideal balance is that we both get some "time off", either separately or together. But no, it doesn't always work, and the house did get into a right state this past weekend that I am still trying to sort out.

If you regard it as a job, a lot of the resentment will disappear and you will see the challenge of doing the best job you can. However, although your DH is not your boss in this scenario, he should be the one to praise your work and facilitate rewards. Can you get a monthly allowance from your joint account, as a pseudo-salary, perhaps?

I'm not sure if that's helpful, but it's how I try to think. I've got an Oxbridge degree and semi-successful career behind me, have found myself stuck as a SAHM for the time being and am trying to make sense of it all!

ViviPru - you are my new hero! It sounds like you have things sorted out the way I WISH they were...I would blame OH's mother for his attitude, but she's lovely. She worked, OH's father does his share of their housework/cooking etc...and I cannot fathom where it went wrong for OH!

MrsBloomingTroll - this is an approach I have begun to apply recently in order to not go totally crackers! I have been identifying one key task I need him to do every day and then he can't accuse me of nagging (why am I so afraid of being called a nag? That's another question for another thread...). Am also considering instigating some kind of performance review system, too...perhaps...

I guess I posted originally - albeit in a semi-serious way - because talking to my friends who also have young babies, this isn't what any of us signed up for! Who says motherhood should automatically equal drudgery??? Perhaps we need a bit more distance from the 1950's before this inequality is redressed?

OP I do sometimes get accused of being a nag too, its my biggest pet hate, something about the word - its so unfair when its about the other persons' shortcomings but its twisted to make out that YOU'RE the one with the problem.

I didn't give the full story when I posted either, we both work full-time, I am the sole breadwinner as DP is setting up a business, so this gives me some leverage when it comes to expectations that chores be equally divided. Its not going to be as easy for you.

If I ever find myself on Mat leave, I imagine the pendulum would probably sway and the arrangement would reflect that of MrsBloomingTroll & chickens

I do strongly advocate the dog training approach though. Just keep on and keep on on a particular task at a time (as you seem to have started to do) and eventually he'll just do it rather than get the earache. Its an arse that life has to be this way, but the 'training' shouldn't take too long.

also considering instigating some kind of performance review system, too... - works very well.

As we have a family of 4 DS' they all know they have jobs to help around the house depending on age - oldest has to do his own laundry at Uni now and even says he's been vacuuming new shared house so looks like training paid off. I do think its a case of saying to them that if they all partake then the jobs get shared / done quicker then time for things they prefer to do. No-one really likes housework but it won't go away (although we've sub contracted the ironing for a while now).

My husband doesn't expect me to do it. He sees the mess and chooses to ignore it until it gets environmental health intervention levels. He would be quite happy for me to do the same. I wouldn't, so I clear it up.

I blame myself.

When we first got married, I/we decided on a v. traditional set-up - DH went out to work & I stayed at home as housewife.

After a year we both changed our minds and I work nearly full time now, but it only took that first year for me to unwittingly completely train him into forgetting that fairies don't do the housework! wails

However 'retraining' is going well jobs are usually split about 60 me/40 him by now. It's just the mental space thing still - I'm the one who carries the domestic minutiae in my head of when we need milk, when washing needs hanging up, what we're having for dinner etc

ViviPru - I like to remind myself that it's not nagging, when I have to ask repeatedly. It's a failure to listen on the part of the OH.

Pomtastic - Understand completely! When I first moved in with OH, I wanted to outshine all previous girlfriends with my unbridled domesticity (why? WHY??). Talk about making a rod for your own back...

SexyDomesticatedDab - I would be thrilled to know that my son is going to grow up like yours!

In all seriousness, I honestly wonder if we will ever get to a point in time when division of chores is no longer such a provocative subject. I honestly believe - and I don't believe I'm alone in this - that if you choose to set up home, make a life and start a family together, those choices are made on a joint basis. Therefore, the execution and management of that life should be a joint endeavour.

Sadly, it's too late for my Mum, who is still slightly scandalised that I had a baby out of wedlock (I am 34).

You have good aspirations OP, generally with men who expected to be waited on the mothers have a lot to answer for and make no apology for making a rod for a future wife/gf back, makes me seethe

I think generally people repeat what was the norm in their own home.

So if someone came from a home where the woman was the skivvy, then that's what they expect. Perhaps the bloke who saw his dad waited on hand and foot by his mum expects that, or maybe his mum herself said that it was all her job - many women it seems did! Perhaps the mum and sisters did the housework while the men and boys did not. If you grow up with that, then you think that's how things are. Doesn't mean you can't decide for yourself that it's not right, of course!

or perhaps the woman was raised the same way, or has some daft idea that to wait on your man is to show him love that he needs to be taken care of

I don't know. I think it's a massive societal problem. Expectations.

The only way that I can see of ever changing it is for us mums of sons now to raise them to do housework and to not see it as women's work. So make them do their share. TELL them that it's their job too. Don't do everything. For god's sake no housework martyrs! and to make our partners do their fair share so that our sons see their dads doing the housework and that is their 'normal'

We may not be able to change the here and now to any great extent (although we should never stop trying!), but we can raise boys who will do their fair share when they are men.

And I know - that sounds like it's making women responsible for the attitudes of men, I don't mean that women are responsible for this, but if you want change, you have to make it happen yourself! and that means starting with your own children. Changing what's normal for them so that they grow up and do their fair share because it's just normal to do so.

"When I first moved in with OH, I wanted to outshine all previous girlfriends with my unbridled domesticity "

This is what is to blame in most cases. I made it very clear to my DH when we first started dating that I'm a horrible feminist and the domestic fairy thing definitely and absolutely will not happen. He does more than me now.

Rod. Backs. Your. For. Own.

^reassemble these words to make a sentence.

Sorry, no sympathy if you baby your dh.

ah - OP - YANBU. I also have this problem but my DH does do some selected chores he 'enjoys'. When I do these chores when he is not around, they get redone as they have not been done to his liking. I am sure he has OCD. A waste of anyones time if ever there was one. We argue constantly about housework. I like the idea of repetition and reward - if only it would work as due to his (my self diagnosed) OCD, my DH switches up the goal posts by one day being helpful and then the next being oblivious to chores that are backing up. I need a degree in patience and physchology to deal with him!

You have to start as you mean to go on from the very beginning. It helps if you choose a man who has been doing it all himself for years.

I think people saying things like vivi did above are also damaging....it's highly ofensiveto liken men to dogs and also undermines the thought that they are just as capapble of understanding how to run a home.

Men are not dogs nor are they stupid about cleaning etc. If that were the case we would nver have managed in numerous wars where soldiers had to survive alone in trenches and makeshift camps would we?

I blame the Mothers of men who have allowed them to have less responsibility in the home and also the media.

Training our sons is possibly the biggest contribution we can make.

I was very lucky because dh had spent his teens watching his dad (born in 1909!) fill the role of SAHP while his much younger wife was the breadwinner, so there was nothing odd to him in a man cooking dinner or doing the laundry.

My DH has a Mother who just does everything...she is Australian and it is quite behind over there in some ways, his Mum IS a feminist in some ways but she can't seem to stop cleaning up after Dh and his Dad. They make a sandwich and she wipes up the crumbs.

Luckily m DH has seen this is wrong but I really struggle at times, we both work and somehow he takes it for granted that I will make sure we have the right lunch things in for DDs nursery lunch and that their dentist appointments are taken care of....I do the lions share of housework but have let my standards go right down as I refuse to spend ALL my time cleaning.

I suspect I am the exception that proves the rule in that my mother brought us up to believe that housework was what women did. On subway the girls would cook lunch and clear up while the boys played.
She and dad got a grip when we went out to work but it was her upbringing and the idea lingers tbh.
Dh lived in exactly the same environment even though both his parents worked. His mother would bring fil drinks and snacks while she cooked supper for us. Then she would clear up.

In spite of that, dh cooks most of our meals, does the main shop, does loads of things with the children in short does at least his share and he works long hours too. I worked for 18 years but am now at home but have raised my ds and dd to do their share. Ds1 is still calling for recipe tweaks but is cooking daily at uni and often helps the others. He is also at the boys (and girls it has to be said) who have clearly never cooked, or cleaned, or shopped before.

I have done my bit. Although having him call me to ask if he can bulk cook mash or when to add wine in a stew is quite funny.