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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not know what non-believers do in court.

37 replies

neversaidnuffin · 30/10/2011 21:32

I feel a bit stupid for not knowing.
The "Put your right hand on the Bible and swear..." bit would mean nothing to me.
So is there an option for people who have no allegiance with any holy text?
And if not, AIBU to think there ought to be.
(and if there is...well, sorry - prob not AIBU)

OP posts:
phoebeophelia · 30/10/2011 21:34

Yes, they can affirm.

joanofarchitrave · 30/10/2011 21:34

You affirm. I did it. Can't remember the exact words - google will know. Originally brought in for the Society of Friends who don't swear vows IIRC. They may ask why you want to do it I think - maybe not any more as it's really none of their business.

Apricots · 30/10/2011 21:34

Do they do that in the uk? I thought it was only in America that people swore on the bible

ScaredBear · 30/10/2011 21:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catsareevil · 30/10/2011 21:35

Yes, you can affirm in court instead if you wish.

catsareevil · 30/10/2011 21:37

I have heard that vicars, priests etc usually affirm rather than taking the oath. Though I have no idea if that is true or not.

cantspel · 30/10/2011 21:40

You dont need to put your hand on anything, just tell the usher you wish to affirm and they will hand you a card with the words of the affirmation on.

I do solemnly and sincerely and truly declare and affirm that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Andrewofgg · 30/10/2011 21:45

catsareevil That's not true. They take the oath. I remember in the very first (pilot) Rumpole of the Bailey there was a clergyman who was a character witness and did not want to swear on the Bible - but that was just the genius of John Mortimer.

joanofarchitrave They don't ask why you want to affirm. Not these days.

Minus273 · 30/10/2011 21:48

You can definitely affirm I have my witness booklet that came with my citation :(. NO good deed goes unpunished and all that.

TheFeministsZombieBride · 30/10/2011 21:48

When I was on jury duty I read out an affirmation because I didn't want to swear on the bible.

A1980 · 30/10/2011 21:50

These days the Courts usually have a holy book to hand for every religion so you can swear on your own. If you're an atheist, there is the affirmation.

OryxCrake · 30/10/2011 21:50

As well as the card with the affirmation there are cards for all the major religions so not just a Christian oath (at least that's how it was when I was shown round a court with a family member who was going to give evidence).

cantspel · 30/10/2011 21:50

Andrew many clergy wont take the oath and many who will.

the standard oath is
I promise before Almighty God that the evidence which I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth

and some believe that they shouldn't take an oath on God if they could be in a position they might tell a lie even if they dont know it to be a lie.

VirgoGrr · 30/10/2011 21:51

DH went to court once and was asked what he wanted to do. He is Muslim (although not a very good one) Grin so they found him a Koran. They had to unwrap it, had never been used before. Box-fresh.

Minus273 · 30/10/2011 21:53

'even if they dont know it to be a lie.'

I'm confused, surely the definition of a lie is saying something you know not to be true. So if you say something you believe to be true then turns out to be wrong you were wrong but didn't lie? Confused. Can someone explain it to me please?

Andrewofgg · 30/10/2011 21:54

cantspel Thanks, that is interesting to know. Of course in secular law that is not perjury. I have seen a number of clergymen give evidence and they have all sworn.

A1980 · 30/10/2011 21:54

The affirmation is :"I do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm, that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

In any event whichever way you do it you undertake to tell the truth whether on a holy book or not. If you don't tell the truth after affirming or swearing it's contempt of court.

bringinghomethebaguette · 30/10/2011 21:54

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Kladdkaka · 30/10/2011 21:55

Some Christians won't swear on the bible because Jesus forbids it.

Minus273 · 30/10/2011 21:56

Ah that makes more sense to me.

ScaredBear · 30/10/2011 21:56

This reply has been deleted

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cantspel · 30/10/2011 21:57

Andrew a religous person might refer to

Matthew 5:33-37

33 ?Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ?Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.? 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God?s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ?Yes? or ?No?; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Which forbides swearing an oath

Andrewofgg · 30/10/2011 21:59

Yes, I know that's why the Quakers won't swear. But it does not seem to trouble others! My own preference would be to abolish the oath and put every witness on affirmation.

babybarrister · 30/10/2011 22:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Minus273 · 30/10/2011 22:02

Shock baby. If the witness was a Musilm too surely she would know that and would ask to affirm if appropriate.

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