When one person's beliefs start to effect everyone else

[MiniMegs]

Sorry for name change but sensitive subject.

Basically I have a group of friends, mainly female but also 4 males. We were trying to organise a night out for Christmas but one of our friend's is muslim so can't go in pubs. Not a problem - we therefore arranged it so that we went for a meal first (so she could come) and then drinks later (when she would go home). We were all happy with this. However now she's saying she doesn't want the blokes invited and wants it to be girl's only. This is akward because the guys think they're coming and are looking forward to the meal. So now we either tell the guys they can't come to the meal or we tell her the guys are coming and she can decide what she wants to do. I feel awful either way.
Another thing is that the resteraunt we were going to (and were looking forward to) she is now saying we can't go as her family live near there and she wants to go to one at the other end of the city instead (which is awkward again as us drinkers won't be able to drive!!).

So what do you do?? I care for this particular friend a lot but this is really starting to effect the group as a whole now

I know you can't reorganise the Christmas do around her, but do your best to stay close to her and keep the lines of communication open because it sounds as if she may need friends increasingly in the future. she may be inconsistent, or genuinely confused - which can be signs of someone being manipulated

I have a religion too. The rules I live by are the rules I live by. If it would be fair for me to impose on you then it'd also be fair for you to impose on me. The only way anyone gets to be happy is to live and let live.

In her shoes I'd be utterly embarrassed to try to impose myself at the expense of all the things everyone else would have to sacrifice, especially as 4 people couldn't go at all. I think she's being selfish asking for these considerations at all, she should accept that it's her rules making it difficult for herself, these prohibitions do not apply to the rest of the party.

The sum total of what she's asking amounts to way beyond reasonable adjustment.

Arrange a new end or end of year Tea party in the afternoon for girls only, and then a boozy bash up for everyone in order to celebrate the birth of JC.

Tell her it's a majority decision about where everyone wants to go and what to do. It's Christmas and most people want to eat drink and be merry. If she doesn't want to join in then she doesn't have to come.

It's about everyone - not just her. Surely she must realise she's being very unreasonable in expecting to be allowed to call all the shots?

Actually, I think in the long run it might be well worth falling out with her over

Is this for real? I have muslim friends who don't drink, so they come to the pub and don't drink. Normal islam doesn't dictate separation of the genders socially, that's more of a cultural thing in the middle east.
I'm all for respecting people's needs, eg when I first opened this thread I thought her only request would be that the food has good veggie options, but this is just controlling behaviour.
Esp the fact that she goes to the pub in the week but not in the evenings. wtf!

I'm a little concerned that I've painted her out to be a monster [hblush] she's not at all, she's the kind of person that would do anything for anyone. She just seems to expect everyone else to be as into her religion as she is, I'm sure she doesn't mean to come across as selfish. She's a lovely person.

I think she has pressure from family personally. She only started wearing a head scarf in the past few months and that's when other "new" rules came in about various things.

is it possible that she is getting pressure from home? I have a friend who has similar restrictions. We don't go to certain pubs as they are close to where family work. We make sure that she is with a mainly female group. If she is seen out then she becomes the subject of gossip in her family and the wider community so it makes life easier for her to be a bit more circumspect. Could something have happened recently to make your friend feel she has to be a bit more cautious than she has been in the past? I'd have a chat with her to see if there is something like that happening. It might be easier to agree to do something else with her at another time if she can't do any of the planned night out or it would be difficult for her.

x-post. If it is pressure from home then she might appreciate someone to talk to and a little reassurance that she won't be dropped as a friend. Ok so this particular night out might be a no go for her but she can still join in at other times. Maybe a lunch out?

Well MiniMegs, you might just have to bite the bullet and say to her that as the planned celebration is to be attended by all non Muslims apart from her and incorporates doing many things that she is uncomfortable with doing she might have to give it a miss? As much as people would like to have her along to join them it's clearly just not going to be possible as it's been a democratic majority decision as to what you'd like to do on the night. Surely you can hack telling her this? Why should people have to bend to accommodate other people's beliefs to the extent that it means hurting other people's feelings by telling them they can't come any more and spoiling their enjoyment?

You say she's a lovely person well if she genuinely was then she's be reasonable, rational and most of all considerate and the last thing she'd ever want to do is to upset others.

If you don't want to tell her, I'll tell her for you if you like.

Agree with Spiggy. You sound like a great friend, understanding

I agree with everyone else, you can't uninvite the men because she's changed her mind about them being there! It also sounds like the changes she'd like would make things a lot more difficult for everyone with travelling etc which also isn't fair.

I'd tell her the plans are staying as they are and while you're sorry if she feels she can no longer make it, it's the way things have to be.

And then maybe next time organise something on the other side of town just for the girls where she'd be happier joining in.

I know it is fairly common for muslim woman who have traditional parents/extended family not to want to be seen going into or out of pubs. In case they are spotted and then will get a lot of grief about this.

The other stuff though is ime very rare and it does sound as if she has some very controlling relation/s in the background.

I think its fair enough to say to her you have already organidsed the do and you can't start uninviting people who have already been invited. You are sorry if this means she can't go, but other things could be organised for the future that she can go to.

MardyArsedMidlander I just wasn't aware that this kind of thing happened, making up spiteful lies about an innocent woman on a works do. You say posters should be a bit more sensitive to the pressures this woman may be under, but she may indeed be under no such pressures, it's just a possibility.

I'm responding to the dilemma the op has, not the colleagues. I don't think I should be more sensitive, am actually getting rather weary of all the sensitivity society constantly demands of me.

Minimegs, you sound like a great friend. Although, I'd go ahead with the celebration as planned, and then maybe arrange something else with your friend? I don't think what she is asking is reasonable at all. Certainly, a place with veggie options is fair enough, but changing venue and guests would be too much. Could you do another evening with her and maybe some female colleagues?

I think, you have made a nice effort with your colleague.

BUT
I completely understand every concern that she has and it is quite common for these concerns to arise in Asian communities.
She is not making things up and she is not trying to be awkward for no reason. She is possibly exploring religion and will naturally make changes to her lifestyle as we all do as we go through life.

It can be very difficult trying to explain the rationale when the boundaries between cultural and religious practices become hazy.

It is pointless generalising all muslims in one category as i constantly see messages saying, 'well i know a muslim and he/she is ok with this and that', because i am sure everyone knows that there will also be another side too.

All I am saying is that her points are valid but you also have a voice. Your colleague has told you what she would like.
Tell her your original plans, tell her the plans have been made and let her make a decision.

If you really like socialising with her, then go out with her on a girls-only night another time.

I can understand her not wanting to go to the pub but, as there will be other women in the group, I can't see what her problem is with having the blokes there. She sounds like she's making up excuses not to go tbh.

She is entitled to her views and Islam like Christianity has different applications so just because one Muslim is comfortable with something it doesn't mean all will be. However you can't change your plans in this instance to accomodate her without letting a lot of other people down so I say keep your night out as planned but arrange a girls only meal she can come to for a future date.

Haven't spotted if you answered the question about being a recent convert i.e. English or an Asian?

She's a brat.

The fact that she's Muslim is a red herring; she's a brat.

HTH. :)