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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

When one person's beliefs start to effect everyone else

69 replies

MiniMegs · 29/10/2011 14:29

Sorry for name change but sensitive subject.

Basically I have a group of friends, mainly female but also 4 males. We were trying to organise a night out for Christmas but one of our friend's is muslim so can't go in pubs. Not a problem - we therefore arranged it so that we went for a meal first (so she could come) and then drinks later (when she would go home). We were all happy with this. However now she's saying she doesn't want the blokes invited and wants it to be girl's only. This is akward because the guys think they're coming and are looking forward to the meal. So now we either tell the guys they can't come to the meal or we tell her the guys are coming and she can decide what she wants to do. I feel awful either way.
Another thing is that the resteraunt we were going to (and were looking forward to) she is now saying we can't go as her family live near there and she wants to go to one at the other end of the city instead (which is awkward again as us drinkers won't be able to drive!!).

So what do you do?? I care for this particular friend a lot but this is really starting to effect the group as a whole now Sad

OP posts:
cantspel · 29/10/2011 14:57

Maybe she is getting presure put on her by other family members hence why she doesn't want to use a restraunt near her family as she runs the risk of being seen and will use a pub lunch time as she knows she is safe from family seeing her.

Very sad for her if this is the case but you still cant leave others out just to make it easier for her to attend.

Original poster
MiniMegs · 29/10/2011 15:00

I just don't understand it. I sometimes wonder if she's confused about her own commitment to the religion. Like she once had a massive speech about how she'd never go out in revealing clothing and would only ever wear baggy stuff that didn't show off her figure because that was her belief/moral decision yet the next day she's bought very tight skinny jeans because they were "designer" and she just loved them so had to buy them. It doesn't make any sense.

OP posts:
perfumedlife · 29/10/2011 15:01

cantspel but why does she need to worry about being seen coming out of a restaurant with a group of friends? It's not a pub, she won't be drunk, I can't for the life of me see the connection between religion and a restaurant near her family...unless she is planning to lie about where she is or with whom..

Original poster
MiniMegs · 29/10/2011 15:02

But lying/being deceitful wouldn't be very Islamic either, surely?

OP posts:
worraliberty · 29/10/2011 15:05

To be honest I think you're over thinking this now OP and picking her apart a bit.

What she decides to wear/what her DH is like/whether lying isn't very Islamic....really has nothing to do with the fact she's been invited on a night out and people shouldn't be 'un invited' because she wants to attend.

Avenged · 29/10/2011 15:06

You could just go ahead with the plans and invite her, but tell her that the original plans are staying as they are WRT the night out and she can join you all if she wants.

upahill · 29/10/2011 15:07

Blimey she's ruling you isn't she.
To be honest I would do what we do at work.
The person organizing does their level best to included the majority but we know that not everyone will be happy.
We just organize a time date and venue to where the most people can get to.

I work in a very multicultual work place and a lot of the times we have works do's in the Indian restaurants but sometimes we get bored of going to the same places so go to English/ Chinese or Italians. The majority of the Muslims come along and those that don't is beacuse they can't make that date.

Original poster
MiniMegs · 29/10/2011 15:09

Yes I probably am getting too involved in her life. I don't mean to it's just that myself and another friend had concerns that she wasn't being treated very nicely at home last year and it's kind of bringing that back up in my head. Still, not my place to accuse or analyse!

I'll just tell her she might want to consider the next night out as the guys have already been invited.

OP posts:
maypole1 · 29/10/2011 15:09

Your mate is taking the piss it always makes me laugh when some muslims claim they can't be in a place were alcohol is served

Yet they go to supermarket Were alcohol is brought and served
Resturnats were alcohol is brought and sold

And as for this men thing its bollocks why would he see pictures of her on Facebook with men

Is she planning on posing for pictures I went out for my sisters birthday last week their is only one picture of me and its of my arm
I choose not to be in pictures so I am not in them

This has nothing to so with her being a Muslim she is being a Pratt I had a party 1 year ago and invited my muslim neighbours the only thing i did was make sure their were non alcoholic beers but others were defiantly drunk and drinking they had a hoot They were almost the last ones to leave and the wife was dancing round her handbag all night

GuillotinedMaryLacey · 29/10/2011 15:22

Agree with everyone else. Tell her this night has already been arranged, too much hassle to change it. You'd love her to come but understand if she can't and leave it up to her.

Jamillalliamilli · 29/10/2011 15:24

The not wanting to go to the one her family live near rings bells, she?s afraid of being seen doing this, so for one reason or another she?s trying to live a double life.

Up to you if you want to accommodate her or not, but if she?s your friend then I suggest you find out what she?s afraid of. It may be her own ?isms? but she may be under pressure from someone. Sometimes the (temp or permanent) arrival of an older brother or uncle can suddenly change the behaviour of ?westernised? families /individuals. Talk to her about it, but also about the fact that she?s been invited to a group event, not one specifically about her.

For what it?s worth I?m in a wheelchair and long ago had to accept that I wouldn?t be part of most work/ parent/ group celebrations, I?d rather be left out than have people grudgingly accommodating me, the latter?s always far worse, a lesson she hasn?t yet learnt by the sound of it.

EllaDee · 29/10/2011 15:32

I think it's pretty standard for some Muslims to prefer not to go to pubs. I'd never expect to invite a Muslim friend out to a pub. But then ... you didn't! You carefully arranged the evening around those of her preferences you knew. That's what friends do - doesn't matter whether those preferences are personal or religious or whatever.

IMO, it is not on for her then to dictate she doesn't want to be with the men, because you've already invited them. So you just tell her that.

This is a really simple situation, and the religion thing is a red herring. Just treat her as you would any other person.

Andrewofgg · 29/10/2011 15:55

If she knew the men were invited when she agreed to do go she must be the one who drops out. End of.

Thzumbazombiewitch · 29/10/2011 16:01

I think you have done your best already with this dinner. She said no pub, you made it a restaurant. It has been arranged, the date set, people invited - she can't keep on making demands and expect them to be met. She might be having troubles at home with her husband, but that being the case, she should mention that he doesn't like her being out with other men in the evening (a very likely scenario). So - either she sucks it up on this one, or she doesn't come.

But, tell her that you can organise another night out, just girls, somewhere else if she wants (and if you want, and you can get the other girls along) - so that she doesn't feel completely isolated.

MardyArsedMidlander · 29/10/2011 16:02

I can quite understand why she doesn't want to go to a restaurant near her family, or go out with a group of men. Don't blame her- it's more likely that if someone sees her, they will run back to her family/ husband stating they saw their daughter/ wife DRUNK, WITH STRANGE MEN and shouldn't they be controlling her better before she brings shame on the family?

I'm not saying you should alter your night out, but just that other posters should be a bit more sensitive to the pressure your work colleguae might be under.

ImperialBlether · 29/10/2011 16:02

I think she's acting like a spoilt child. This is a night out for everyone and she can't discriminate on the basis of gender. The restaurant has been chosen based on accessibility - she can't change that to one that's not near her parents' home - that's just ridiculous.

Tell her that's the way it is - she's welcome to come. If she wants to organise a 'fun' night of no drinking for women only, she's welcome to do that separately.

PosiesOfPoison · 29/10/2011 16:08

So (take religion away)
She won't socialise with men who are your friends,
She own't go to pubs,
Noone is allowed to take photos of a night out because of her

Why would you invite her to do anything anyway?

ImperialBlether · 29/10/2011 16:11

Couldn't her husband come with her, if she's worried about her reputation? (I know just how mad that sounds, btw.)

HecateGoddessOfTheNight · 29/10/2011 16:14

You can't uninvite four people to make one person happy. That's really unfair. She is not more important than the four she is asking you to exclude.

I think you should say these are the arrangements, if she doesn't feel she can attend, then that's sad and you'll miss her, but you aren't going to be so rude as to uninvite your friends for her.

ChippingInAutumnLover · 29/10/2011 16:16

I agree with MardyArse - completely.

MrBloomsNursery · 29/10/2011 16:20

Well I can say something about this matter. I think your friend is being a tad bit unreasonable.

I don't go into pubs - I'm muslim. I don't go because I don't feel comfortable being surrounded by people drinking alcohol around me, when it is something I don't do. Also, the few times I did go with friends, I ended up paying ALOT of money for alcohol I didn't drink. So those are my reasons. My friends know this, and therefore I never involve myself with any "outings" that may include going to a pub for drinks, and everyone is perfectly fine with that and don't expect to invite me. If there's a nice restaurant within the pub, and they're offering good vegetarian options, then I might make an exception and go. (We have a pub near us that has a nepalese restaurant in it, and the food is great!).

So from my perspective, your muslim friend shouldn't really be dictating where you go.

As for the male company thing. Well that's very unreasonable. I take it you're all friends together? So she is friends with the males aswell? Is she married or single, and does she have a strict muslim family? From what you say about the location of the restaurant -I feel she is scared of her family for some reason...it's just all really weird! Does she have family problems?

I find it strange that the whole outing is being dictated by one person. If I were her, and was uncomfortable about something, then I would remove myself from the outing, and not spoil it for everyone else. I have done this a few times, particularly for work outings (which I am sure most people are uncomfortable with anyway!)

TandB · 29/10/2011 16:26

I think you have to stick to your plans and let her make her own decision about how she wants to go about things.

However, I would be wary of assuming that she is being spoilt or awkward. Her behaviour sounds extremely like that of someone I used to do martial arts with. In the run up to her marriage she became increasingly stressed about things she had been fine about before - socialising with male classmates, going for a drink after class, her style of dress etc. Since her marriage she has left the class and deleted all her male classmates from Facebook. She sent a message to the women from the class and it turns out that her husband had been putting pressure on her to conform to his beliefs and since the marriage he has forbidden all sorts of things.

The type of things your friend is requesting sound very much to me like attempts to avoid problems with family/community - she may be someone who has previously enjoyed certain freedoms which are now under threat because of pressure from that direction, and she may well be struggling with it.

Obviously it is ultimately her decision about how she wants to live her life, but it is worth bearing in mind that this might not be a straightforward situation of "I want, I want" from her.

On the face of it, there is nothing in the arrangements that should cause her problems from a purely religious point of view. My boss is muslim and happily attends all sorts of work functions in pubs and bars, and will go into a pub for lunch. Her husband is less keen, but will attend special occasions in pubs. Neither of them see any issue with her socialising with men.

KreepyInMind · 29/10/2011 16:28

Tell her the plans for your Christmas night out are you will be going for a meal, you will have male friends there and you will be going to the pub, if she is not happy with this then she can stay home, you have been as accommodating as possible.

Why the hell should everyones evening be wrecked because of one person and their silliness

DogsBeastFiend · 29/10/2011 16:38

"I actually think this has nothing to do with her being Muslim and everything to do with her being a spoilt Princess."

I wish we had a "like" button, Worra. :)

OP if it helps I don't eat meat. I think that those who do are morally wrong but I don't insist that they only eat in a vegan restaurant when I dine with friends or that they eat only vegan food. If the restaurant caters for me I will join my friends, if it doesn't I will politely decline the invitation.

The only time when I make the rules is when folk dine at my house. No meat is brought into my house much less cooked or served here, not for anyone. If invitees to my home don't like that then it's their chance to politely decline my invitation. Guests don't get to make the rules!

Appuskidu · 29/10/2011 16:39

OP-what have you told your friend you will do? Have you agreed that you will alter the arrangements? The way you stated that the men still thinks they are coming makes it sound like you have?

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