to be offended by that deeply unhelpful notice on Tube barriers which says that children under five and dogs must be carried?

[Raichy]

Do dogs and children under five have the same status? And what if you have more than one child under five? I can't help feeling that the Tube has not been designed with parents and children in mind. Also these nightmare barriers are now at mainline stations too. My children are older now, but I have spent much time in the past struggling with them and automated barriers. I keep meaning to write and complain, but I thought I would see what other people thought first.

Raichy. Have you thought about getting a car?

I think you might like it.

Not that the tube is easy with a baby and a toddler, but life in general isn't very easy with a baby and a toddler

Andrew, read my post again. Properly this time please. :)

Let me help you...

"to discover that the only seat available for your PFB was next to me and my (just as important to me as your PFB is to you) German Shepherd Dog".

IE that I was occupying the seat and my GSD was beside me, occupying a place on the floor.

(Though I'd far prefer him to have a seat as he's far nicer and better behaved than any small child and considerably cleaner too). :o

I once bought a seat on a train for my bag because I was in a very bad mood and wanted to be left alone. The ticket person told me and one moaning, suited woman,if my bag had a paid for ticket then he had as much right as any person to occupy a seat, although that might have been because I scowled at him

dh saw the aftermath of a dog that someone had NOT carried on the escalator once. Horrible. Poor creature got trapped, and in pain and fear it bit its owner and the people in front and behind. Dh being a first aider stopped to help - lucky he did as the tube staff were clueless (and had no scissors or safety pins in the first aid kit which made it hard to assemble bandages).

Dogs on seats - NO, that's horrible, unhygenic and deeply selfish on the owner's part.

Children on seats - only if there are enough seats for everyone, otherwise on the parent's lap, or the parent stands if they prefer their child to sit on their own.

I think that society in general (and that includes commercial enterprises like bus companies) has a duty to consider the needs of the child, and not put them at risk

They have considered the needs of everyone and decided that small children, for their safety, should be carried. And there is always a luggage gate to go through.

This really wasn't a problem when mine were young. I wonder if today's bigger buggies make things more awkward.

I have been travelling by National Express coach a lot lately and they do not have a system of priority boarding for young families so

The inconsiderate rotters!

Sorry OP but you are coming across as VU

All right, DBF, I misread your post and I apologise. I am sure you would never let your dog on a seat.

I was wondering how the hell you got a German Shepherd on the seat in the first place . . . :o

Tried Underground for the first time this summer in a wheelchair. Ealing Brodway to South Ken so just about possible as I could get out of the chair to go down the steps.

Buggies can be folded, babies carried, hands held. A phaff but do-able. Saw some babies and toddlers on journey. Did not see a single wheelchair bound person (which I am luckily not atm) on the journey.

Realise that the Victoarian construction that the railway is, is not really conducive to access.

that soon I might not be able to go there........

End of tangental rant.

I have been travelling by National Express coach a lot lately and they do not have a system of priority boarding for young families so that children can end up sitting separate from their parents for quite long journeys.

Raichy I use the coaches a lot too. I have never seen a small child unable to sit next to a parent (the other parent may have to sit separately but that is another matter) except once when they got on a busy coach where most seats were already taken, and then a man travellling on his own moved to help them. It was a chap I often see - in the mirror .

:o

No apology needed, Andrew. :)

I have to tell you though that I would happily allow my dogs to take a seat on public transport if they were permitted to do so. problem is, when at home my huge GSD2 likes to lie on his back upon the sofa, twisted in a position which makes my stomach churn, legs in the air... not a feat easily achieved on a crowded tube train!

A wonderful old Catholic bishop who I knew when I was a child fell foul of this very thing. He was standing at the bottom of an escalator looking confused, When a member of staff asked if he was OK he pointed to the "Dogs must be carried" sign and said "I don't have a dog - please will tou let me on anyway".

I have been travelling by National Express coach a lot lately and they do not have a system of priority boarding for young families so that children can end up sitting separate from their parents for quite long journeys

I can not think of one person who would want to sit with anyone elses child on a long coach journey, and I am sure people would soon move seats with the parent if that were true... which it isnt.

[aside] poppyknot, I'm similar, can walk short distances but have to bring wheelie to travel. I found in London that whilst the tube is quicker than buses, once you get the hang of the routes you can get pretty much everywhere unassisted. And the buses are less crowded and have a better view than the tube! [/aside]

I was wondering how the hell you got a German Shepherd on the seat in the first place

It growls, bares it's teeth and the occupier moves :)

I need to learn that trick too :o

Rollersara as with many things planning seems to be the thing. Now find going down escalators more than scary. Luckily have quite a good internal map of London (getting from A to B) And as you say buses have the better view!

You have to bear in mind how old the London Underground is. Wheelchairs simply did not exist when it was built.

As I said before I know that it was built way before consideraton for access was given. (Used to have a bit of a thing for the transport museum......)

Just an observation about wheelchairs users and children having different possible solutions.........

I also love the Transport Museum.......

I know that the old underground was probably unbearable with all the smoke and dust and all but the thought of clacketing along in the 'modern' railway carriages is strangely appealing!

squeakyfreakytoy Wheelchairs did exist when the tube was built; you will find them mentioned in Dickens and probably earlier authors too. What did not exist was any thought of allowing for the people who used them. Unfortunately the scope for repairing the damage is limited especially on the older lines.

Thanks Andrewofgg. Well put! Anyone down a thesis on this yet?

The sign the OP mentions does exist - just saw it! It's not technically a sign though, it's a small blue sticker on every ticket barrier, just in front of the round yellow Oyster reader. The actual wording is "Children under 5 (and dogs) must be carried through the barriers". So OP, YA defintely BU! They put dogs in brackets, so clearly they are trying to differentiate their status!

I need to get a life.

It's like legal texts on contract law which used to have a chapter headed 'Infants, Lunatics and Married Women'. (All shared legal incapacity.)