to be offended by that deeply unhelpful notice on Tube barriers which says that children under five and dogs must be carried?

[Raichy]

Do dogs and children under five have the same status? And what if you have more than one child under five? I can't help feeling that the Tube has not been designed with parents and children in mind. Also these nightmare barriers are now at mainline stations too. My children are older now, but I have spent much time in the past struggling with them and automated barriers. I keep meaning to write and complain, but I thought I would see what other people thought first.

CremeEgg, of course you may. I recommend D-GSD2, he loves everyone and everything and despite being a total fruitloop is very well behaved. :o

Stranger, on a far more serious note, what a horrific tale and a fair warning. Poor pooch. :(

wannaBe: guide dogs are to be allowed on escalators, provided they are on duty and have been trained to use them safely.

No, the Tube is not very child-friendly, but then most of it is not wheelchair-friendly or even crutches-friendly, and there I speak from experience. It's the way it was built in the times when it was built. Too late to do much about it.

As for the sign, well, OP, I believe there are places around where you can get a life. Just poor phrasing, ffs.

Hmmmm - has OP done a big shit and run thing here? Honestly - really - nobody could be that dense and offended so it's clearly a big old wind up!

It's not that I object to safety notices, it's just that I think they could show families a bit more respect. It is really difficult to manage the Tube if you are carrying any more than a briefcase, never mind one or two small children and a buggy. There are campaigns to make transport more accessible for disabled people, but it seems to me that we could ask for more consideration for young families too. I have been travelling by National Express coach a lot lately and they do not have a system of priority boarding for young families so that children can end up sitting separate from their parents for quite long journeys. I don't think that is very good either.

What you have to realise Raichy is that your child is your world. She/he is of very little concern to the wider public. If you want choice of where to sit on the bus, then, you'll have to get to the bus station earlier. I also imagine many people would switch seats to allow a younger child to sit with her carer, although they also have the right to refuse. They paid for their seat, just as you did yours.

I'm sorry DooinmyCleanin, but I think that society in general (and that includes commercial enterprises like bus companies) has a duty to consider the needs of the child, and not put them at risk. I'm sure most people would move to let a child sit near their carer, but you can't always rely on that.

Oh I see now - it was a ME ME ME thread

I think it highly unlikely that someone wouldn't offer to swap seats with a parent on a long coach trip - highly unlikely.... generally, strangers are nowhere near as enamoured with you children as you are and don't generally want to spend long coach trips sitting next to tarquin or bart.

What consideration exactly do you want on the tube

Put a child at risk? What, by sitting next to an adult on a coach that their parents are also on? Yes, huge risk as Doin said, get there early enough to be in the front of the queue - not too hard.

So how is a sign relating to the safety of children NOT showing consideration to families?

What would be better? Perhaps a sign saying "Do what you like with your child - we don't care"? Or one saying "Have a nice day, mummies and daddies" but making no mention of the safety issue?

Seriously, OP, this is such a non-issue that it is silly. There are plenty of places in this country that certainly could do with being more accessible - and I say accessible because things that are difficult for families with small children are almost inevitably even more difficult for those with disabilities - but a sign on the tube barrier really isn't top of the list.

OP, YABU and PFB.

And what on earth is the connection between tube barrier signs and coach trips?

National Express similarly don't bend over backwards to ensure PFB little ones are sat with their parents.

And incidentally, the tube is 150 years old - little things like disability discrimination weren't considered quite so important back then. And unfortunately they can't simply close all the old stations and replace them with better ones - the accessibility issue is being dealt with slowly and on an on-going basis.

Good god OP! What the hell's going to happen to your child through sitting next to another adult on a coach? Apart from, perhaps, she might get on the adult's thrupennies if she's as demanding and precious as her doting mother!

The world does not revolve around your child! (Which has to be said though Dooin said it first and far more eloquently).

Makes me wonder what the feck you'd do if, having carried your PFB on the escalator you got onto the tube to discover that the only seat available for your PFB was next to me and my (just as important to me as your PFB is to you) German Shepherd Dog, whom I'd skillfully carried down the escalator too. :o

What the jeff has National Express boarding policies got to do with a safety sign on the tube??

OP you've completely failed to explain what exactly your problem is. Would you like a sign that says "Fuck the fuck off we don't give a toss about your child"?

Would you like a gold plated lift just for buggies?

Would you like a butler on hand to assist you through the gate?

As for the "nightmare gates", I have never been to a station (either mainline or tube) that didn't have a buggies access gate. If you failed to notice that, that's your fault.

This is a non problem.

Also as everyone else has explained you DON'T have to carry your child. You have to carry dogs and supervise children. If you can find a sign that says different, I'd like to see it.

TfL is a single system, bits of it are not wheelchair accessible (and, as a fortunate added extra, buggy accessible), but they have made up for it by converting (almost) all the buses at enormous expense. I remember the days before pushchair-accessible buses, and it was No Fun. I also remember squeezing the DCs over/under/through the gates of unmanned tube stations before the near-universal introduction of wide automatic gates and that was a lot more fun for them but not relaxing for me.

You have to supervise children on the escalators, but carry them through the gates according to the official signage.I never did the latter though, and don't think I've ever seen anyone else lugging a three year old through either.

priority boarding on coaches?? pmsl - are you for real? the day society needs policies and rules and regulations, instead of person-to-person interaction, common sense and kindness to facilitate small children sitting next to their parents would be a sad day indeed.

DBF Your dog ought not to occupying a seat at all and certainly not if a a passenger of any age is standing. And you know it.

If DBF's dog is over five and has paid for his seat, the he has more right to sit there than a non-paying child who ought to sit on it's mother's knee.

OP - they don't have the same status. The same dangers apply to both of them.

With respect, I think you've got this all arse-about-face

You can take children through the large barriers that are for buggies and wheelchairs (OH No! I just equated children and disabled people!)

Seats are for people. Not dogs and not bags, unless they are not needed for people. Of any age or condition.

Also, if there aren't the larger barriers I mentioned, you just approach a member of staff who will let you through the normal barriers with their special card and give you more time