to expect my DH to earn more (or possibly less)

[mischiefnight]

namechanged due to personal nature

I realise I may get a flaming for this but I need to know whether I have a reasonable point or not.

Background: Me, DH, plus 4 DC, one at Uni, one SN. All now at school.

DH has a good job in IT (project/programme mgmt, major company) earns about 57k basic before tax plus around 6-9k bonus after tax (dependant on company profits so a couple of years didn't get one). Worked there 5 years.

Up until a few years ago I had a decent pt job earning around 30k pro rata. I gave this job up about 3 years ago to focus more time on DS3 who has SN. I now run a small business that involves visiting clients in their home to try and fit around the kids.

I understand that in the current climate DH is lucky to have a secure job and we should be grateful (his view on things) however increasingly over the last couple of years he has taken on more and more responsibility for no extra money (mostly due to cuts in other staff).

We are at a point now where he leaves at 6am is rarely home before 8pm and often works weekends (just told me he is working next two) and when he is at home is often on laptop/blackberry.

We have no family to help out so I feel like a single parent most of the time. It is affecting my business as I need him to cover childcare for evening and weekend appointments so consequently I am not earning very much. I am also looking for another pt job now all the kids are at school but am finding the logistics hard as he is not available to assist in any way.

He has very good, sought after skills and qualifications but is not very ambitious, he focuses much more on doing a job to the best of his ability. I think he is massively underselling himself.

AIBU to think that he should either seek a higher paid job so I can afford a nanny/mothers help and actually be able to leave the house once in a while

or

Take a lower paid job so I can work properly and we can both share the childcare and housework (as I type this I know it won't happen as he loves his job and wouldn't be happy anything else).

I also get pissed off because he goes on a lot about money, how we need to be careful with it and how we (meaning me) need to bring more money in. It seems ridiculous that I am always the one scrabbling around to try and earn the extra when he has far more earning potential and the freedom to do it.

Sorry this has ended up so long and well done if you got this far!

Just realised my name change might make people think this is a piss take post. It's not.

Is he being underpaid when compared with others doing similar work in your area? If so, and if he wants to, he could look at moving to get a pay rise - but some people like to stay at the same job with people they like/familiarity/flexibility or whatever else is on offer.

If you want occasional ad-hoc childcare cover you could think about alternative arrangements - au pair? Or even an au pair share arrangement - perhaps share with another family alternate weeks and make client appointments for the week when you have cover. There are probably lots of other ideas and possibilities, but you would be better off focussing on what you can do to solve your childcare issue than nagging your husband to give up a job that he seems to want to keep.

Yes times are tough right now but the DH has very valuable skills in a high-paying industry.

He probably can't negotiate a raise but why not look for another job? There's no downside to at least looking.

£57 isn't a high salary, especially given the hours he works, but I'm pretty sure it's above average, and many families manage on much less. And if he loves his job, then he's very lucky, not many people can say that, and it can often be worth accepting lower pay in order to have a better and happier life. If he's being underpaid for what he does though, it might be worth him raising that with his manager - often with these things, if you don't ask you don't get. If they're keen to keep him they might be willing to consider it.

I think that's up to him though, he's in the best position to know whether his pay is appropriate for his industry and his level of experience, and whether he'd be comfortable raising the issue at this stage. I am generally a bit about women complaining that their husbands don't provide enough money, especially when he is clearly working very hard and earning a reasonable amount anyway.

You can make the suggestion, sure, but I think you would be unreasonable to nag about it.

I think you are being VVVVVVUR.

My DH works in a similar industry to yours and was recently made redundant after 5 years. He has been very lucky as he has found new work but none of the same conditions etc. To expect your DH to change to a better paid perhaps more pressured job just seems so pushy on your part.

I do agree with CustardCake (love the name) that after tax, living in london you are left with very little money.

Have you thought more about changing your business to something where client visits etc were limited to normal working hours. Something so that you could have a paid childcare for say 2 days a week which would reduce some of the pressure from you.

YANBU. Your are the main carer for kids and are working when you can. I can see that it would be ideal to work when DC are in school but if that is not locally available, I can understand that you are doing what you can especially with the TA post.

If you think your DH is underpaid, help him to build a proposal/request for a payrise. If you don't ask you don't get. Yes it is a recession but not every business is doing badly. Could he take on another member of staff, delegate some work and therefore become more senior with more strategic responsibility (and get a payrise)? Could he build a plan of how to increase business to justify the extra cost? Similarly, if he is working silly hours and the business turnover is not increasing he is not working efficiently or taking the right jobs or charging too little etc.

At the same time maybe work up for yourself what the cost/benefit would be for childcare. Say if you worked 2 Saturday's a month what difference it would make financially. If your son has SN is any additional assistance available? If this isn't possible and you can not leave your son with anyone except DH then he needs to cut down his hours to free up your time to earn.

I don't think it's fair to say the OP just wants her DH to make more money -- she said she would be happy for him to earn less if it meant he worked normal hours.

Emsy has a good point, could you do a nanny share? If you are in London, there's a good section for it on Gumtree.

Thank you all for the balance of replies. I think there are a lot of valid points.

I should be more grateful, as I stated in my OP I knew I would take some flak as it is a good salary compared to many.

I guess as is the case with most people it is hard to get a good work life balance.

Thanks for the tip about looking for a qualified nursery nurse as extra childcare, that might work. I need to find someone as I can't seem to leave the house after 6pm these days.

I am sorry but comparing pre schoolers to a child with SN is really not on. My daughter had a severe disability and I cannot work at all. Social services are supposed to provide care in order for carers to carry on in employment but often they don't or wont. Also childcare for pre schoolers is much easier to find and fit round a working schedule. Once they are in school you have school holidays to work around, after school care, not to mention the fact that a child with significant SN is almost impossible to place in a childcare setting.

I do think 57k p/a is a good wage though and I think you ought to slacken off your dh a bit/alot. Your frustration is to do with having to take on the caring role and feelingt rapped and that, in my own experience, is completely normal.

my daughter has a severe disability, not had! sorry

actually i don't believe that anybody should be working from (assuming a 1hr commute) 7am to 7pm plus a large number of weekends for no extra pay without questioning it, particularly when it seems from the OP that this wasn't the initial job description... too many employers are getting away with increasing demands from their employees and not paying fairly by using 'you're lucky to have a job' arguments.

the OPs husband should either cut back on hours to something closer to the EU working time directive (48hrs a week) or should be asking for a payrise and/or speaking to headhunters and recruitment consultants.

One of the nurseries that a lot of my friends use offers babysitting - pretty much all the nursery nurses there will do it and it's £6 an hour (we're in the North West). It is probably quite common for nursery nurses to do babysitting on the side for extra £, just ask around and see what you can arrange. In this economic climate, you will probably find lots of suitably qualified people who are able to offer ad hoc childcare for a bit of extra money.

YANBU, purely on the basis that if he expects you to earn more money, he has to provide you with the wherewithal to do evening/weekend appointments.

Can't he work from home during these times so that you can go out?

ps I've been trying to guess your job, and I think you're either a photographer or a wedding planner

"if he expects you to earn more money"

did he say that?

I thought it was OP that wanted it?

"he goes on a lot about money, how we need to be careful with it and how we (meaning me) need to bring more money in"

From the OP. So yes I think she is saying that her DH wants her to bring more £ in.

No- the OP said her DH was always saying money was tight and wanted the OP to get more through her work.

I also get pissed off because he goes on a lot about money, how we need to be careful with it and how we (meaning me) need to bring more money in. It seems ridiculous that I am always the one scrabbling around to try and earn the extra when he has far more earning potential and the freedom to do it.

Thanks RogerMelly, reading your post just brought tears to my eyes. You are right this is probably more about me feeling a bit trapped. I don't want DH to earn more so we can have more material things I think I just associate it with having more freedom and flexibilty.

Unless I can find an appropriate babysitter I no longer seem to be able to meet friends, take an exercise class or plan anything for evenings or weekends. I view working as having time off.

I don't give my DH a hard time over this very often as I know its unfair. It would probably help if I had family around to talk to.

Also agree with maybenow

"actually i don't believe that anybody should be working from (assuming a 1hr commute) 7am to 7pm plus a large number of weekends for no extra pay without questioning it"

For that amount of work, his salary isn't mahossive IMO

If he were my DH I would be suggesting that he at least have a look around the job market, sign up with an agency specialising in his line of work, and see what's out there. That is a lot of hours he is working no wonder you are finding it difficult what with your other responsibilities as well.

I do also think it's hugely frustrating to see your OH's employer take the piss. You just feel angry on their behalf. Dh used to almost be punching walls at the hours I used to work for my constantly understaffed (yet hugely profitable) employer.

When I quit, the reason I gave was "Well if I'm going to do City hours, I might as well actually go and work in the city and then at least I'll get the salary" . I kicked the tumbleweed out of the way as I shut the door.

I think the two of you need to sit down and think about some really serious things:

• How do you want your family to look? Presumably him working all hours and you feeling trapped isn't it
• What are the options for both your work
• For childcare
• How will things be in 5 years, how do you want them to be, what's the best way of getting there

It sounds really hard for you at the mo and it is good IMO that you are actively thinking about what to do to change things. You need to involve your DH in that process though!

Those are good points SardineQueen. We do need to have a proper talk about this (when he is not at work or asleep which is rare )

I'm going to bow out for now as I really must get on with stuff.

Thanks for all the contributions, I am perhaps being abu with regards to being grateful for what we have but I think I have a fair point in questioning our current family set up.

I think there are quite a few different issues in this thread that need separating.

YABU to criticise your DH for lack of ambition or not earning enough. A salary of £57,000 basic puts him well in the top 10% earners of the country anyway and almost in the top 5%. It is more than double the national average. I can appreciate that everything is relative and if you live in an expensive area and most of your peers are earning more, you may feel like lots of other people are doing significantly better than you, but it's worth remembering that this is not representative of the vast majority.

However, YANBU to feel that your DH is managing to hold down his career at the expense of your own, because you are providing all the childcare and your own business is suffering as a result. If he can't be there to provide childcare himself, he should be prepared to sacrifice some of his salary to pay for it. If neither is a realistic option, he should at least be acknowledging your role and he certainly should not be criticising you for not earning more yourself when he is directly responsible for hampering your earning potential by refusing to pull his weight WRT childcare.

I think you could both do with a little less criticism from each other and more acknowledgement of what each of you is bringing to the relationship, and then try to work out a solution.

Even with the tax you lose in the HRT bracket, with both of you earning it should be possible to pay for some level of childcare. This would probably be your best option.

Hope you sort things out.

Good luck mischief

Is this a conversation you've actually had with your DH, mischiefnight ? He does seem to work extremely long hours for what he earns and I agree that the balance could be better. I understand about the childcare issue - I have 2 kids with SN and while one is relatively "easy" to look after, the other has a lot of problems which mean he doesn't even manage a full week at school, sometimes, which makes the prospect of even working part time virtually impossible for me to consider, unless I could work weekends only, which would mean no family time, at all.

Rather than drifting through and becoming resentful, I do think you both need to sit down together and come up with a "plan." It doesn't have to be anything radical, but you do need to make sure that you both understand how each other feels about the current situation and what you would like to change, if possible, and how you would go about it.

'However, YANBU to feel that your DH is managing to hold down his career at the expense of your own, because you are providing all the childcare and your own business is suffering as a result.'

BUT.. if you read the thread carefully, the OP mentions having until 3 years ago a decent part time job earning 30k pro rata. In other words, before the decision for her to give up the job because of the child with SN, she had already downsized to p/t while he carried the responsibility of main earner. The reason I'm highlighting this is not to make a judgement, because its entirely reasonable for any family to make such a decision. But it's not really fair to then make it sound as though he's just been forging ahead with his own career willy nilly. It sounds as though some years back, probably when they first had kids, she reduced to part time work. Unless the OP drip feeds more info, we can assume that this was what she wanted, and her DH supported that decision. Roll on until 3 years ago, and another family decision was made for her to give up that job due to family circumstances. Again, I assume that was an agreed decision all round. The DH could have left his job at that point and become the main carer for their child - but then she would have had to step up and earn considerably more to keep their life style.

It sounds tbh as though the problem is mainly that the OP is running a business which requires so much evening and weekend work. With all the children in school, its not a great use of time. It would be far better to work during school hours since no care is required for at least the 6 and a half hours they are there. I don;t think a TA job is the way to go either because the earning prospects are so poor. Could the business idea fit into day time hours? Or could it be adapted to fit it? I am also wondering what the OPs business is - i am also thinking some sort of wedding or party planning! great minds think alike! But some business ideas could be flexed to fit more friendly hours, which would serve the purpose of making the OP feel fulfilled again, and meeting the family's needs.

I think the average household combined income is £33 grand so you are actually doing incredibly well. I can't see why you couldn't have a homehelp for a few hours a week (a cleaner is about £10 an hour, a home help just for extra pair of hands is often less) to help out on your income.

My husband earns about half of yours and does similar hours! I am desperate for some help as I also don't have family nearby. I also do understand the trapped feeling (I have 2 degrees including an oxbridge one - this wasn't the life I was expecting...) Money does buy more choices but its also subject to those around you - if you move in wealthy circles you expect more. Honestly if you lived around here you would think yourself incredibly wealthy in contrast to those around you.