AIBU to let my kids take time off school to go hunt saboteuring?

[LoopyLoopsPussInBoots]

I (genuinely) used to take time off as a child to do this, and have very fond memories of laying wrong scents, protesting and generally causing a nuisance to the local hunt.

AIBU to let my kids do the same? The sport only happens a few days a year, so it is hard to fit in around school.

Oddly I don't condone the senseless murder of a living animal, not for any reason

Apart from it not being murder to kill any species but our own, DBF, would you care to tell us when killing a living creature is not senseless and therefore you condone it?

Self-defence?
Culling because they are too numerous for the environment?
Animal in extreme pain?
Any others?

Murder. Yes, murder. And Andrew, we've done this one. I'm not going through it again with you.

Earthdog, I have no compassion for the person who drove into Felix (assuming that it was deliberate) and would fully support the book being thrown at them. I'd also happily drive into the fucker myself.

I have a straightforward view of hunting.

If you kill an animal quickly and humanely and you are going to eat it, I am ok with that and although I wouldn't do it, I think it is a more honest approach to eating meat than buying factory farmed meat from a supermarket. So I am ok with someone stalking and shooting deer for example.

Fox hunting however, involves chasing an animal and causing it distress (they are killed pretty quick when caught but the chase is cruel to me) and you don't eat them. It is an ineffecitve method of pest control too as hunts don't often catch anything.

As I have said before most of my family hunt, my friends hunt, all my yard hunts and my own horses get used for hunting. I am heavily involved in point to point etc and know the hunting community well so I am not some "townie" who doesn't know what they are talking about.

But chasing a terrified animal until it is exhausted is cruel. There is no denying that.

Perhaps when you don't dress up and make a day out of it?

Bloody well said catgirl!

Why thanks countess

I have no issue with drag hunting either, in fact I would like to go drag hunting, but I won't because I know for a fact our local hunt will happily "accidentally" go after a fox and I personally cannot be a part of that.

Yes catgirl I have witnessed those 'accidents' too. I find it peculiar that at that particular point the Police have disappeared.....

...but normally the only time you see so many police in a rural area is when the Hunt is out.

As a former groom, pet keeper and a farmer, if I thought hunting was cruel then I would just go blood hounding or drag hunting instead! However, I do not think it is cruel; I have seen a good number of kills and they have ALL been split second affairs. The claims that the chase is cruel are incorrect. People don't realise, but a hunted fox is mostly a huge distance (1/2 a mile, a mile or so) ahead of the hounds. He is in his own environment, confident of escape. I have seen hunted foxes stop for a scratch and a sniff, they are not bothered until the very last seconds. Then the hounds kill in a second or two. Why worry about a fox being killed humanely when humans suffer much more?? Also KaFayOlay, sorry to hear about the hound being killed on the A34 :-( I have known some decent sabs but most of the ones we got were highly dubious.

You will see what you will see Earthdog as your beliefs are such.

I have seen it very differently....

Exactly -each to their own! As a libertarian, I try to practise this belief with all matters especially those I may disapprove of, so long as people are not hurt. FGS join Amnesty or Ethiopaid, help HUMANS who ARE ACTUALLY suffering- not foxes which may or may not be!!

It's not even just the cruelty

In my personal opinion I just see people who enjoy taking away lives as utterly sick. To me, rubbing your hands together and enjoying the death of a fox is no different to rubbing your hands together and enjoying the death of anything.

I get that these animals have to be culled, but turning it into an 'enjoyable' 'sport' is no different in my mind to the people who would turn out every week at the guillotines to gawp and turn death into a 'social event'.

No matter what way I look at it, getting pleasure out of death is simply sick.

Worra no one who hunts enjoys seeing a fox killed- what an odd thing to say!? Foxhunters enjoy the thrilling ride which is unrelated to the kill.

"I'd also happily drive into the fucker myself."

Hmm: A rational response? Or someone who is just being a bit silly?

I think you are entitled to your belief Earthdog- that is what makes this country great.I do not believe you should be allowed to practise it,thats all.

And I do not think that to be against foxhunting necessarily excludes a concern for human suffering.....

Earthdog don't be daft Lol

If that was the case they'd ride til their hearts are content without anything being killed.

Seriously, it's one thing to make a point you believe in...but quite another to pretend it's all about the riding.

complex, neither.

The truth.

Talking of being rational, Earthdog - "I have seen a good number of kills and they have ALL been split second affairs"

So that makes it alright then? It would be a split second affair if someone shot you - but that wouldn't make the action any less cruel, barbaric or immoral or the killer any less mentally unstable for giving in to a desire to kill off what some of us might consider vermin - the animal abusers of this world.

"Why worry about a fox being killed humanely when humans suffer much more?"

Do you not realise that it's perfectly possible to do both?

Hmm... you do, don't you? You realise that very well indeed.

Please don't try to improve the image of animal killers by insinuating that those who disagree with what you do are lacking in the ability to be compassionate towards humans too. That's a common trick and we're bored of it.

What makes this country great is that it is a liberal democracy, where illiberal oppressive laws have traditionally not been passed. Shame then that New Labour forced the Hunting Act though with the unconstitutional Parliament Act. At least Mr Blair has the decency to regret it now :-/

DBF I agree- our basic philosophical beliefs are different. I do not believe in AR; you do. Makes life more interesting. So thank you; it's years since I had a good hunting debate :-)

Blair regretted it from the off, if you recall his manifesto claims, his subsequent answers to questions on the proposed ban and his refusal to attend the vote, wanting instead of a ban a partial one.

I'm no fan of the Labour party either whilst Ann Widdecombe is staunchly anti hunt- I don't think that party politics comes into it much.

I like the Widdy-lady. A wise and evolved person, that one.

Earthdog I am sure you are aware of estates where foxhunting is enjoyed to the point where the Gamekeepers are not allowed to shoot fox because it would diminish the numbers for the Hunt.If fox are such a pest then why would there be a need to artificially maintain their numbers???

Furthermore,with the growing number of urban fox,some in a very poor state,if the Hunt is so effective at pest control,why aren't they on the local big towns High Street every Saturday????

That second sentence didn't make much sense did it!

"I'm no fan of the Labour Party yet I supported them on this issue whilst Tory AW is staunchly anti hunt... " might have been a bit more understandable.

Worra do you really believe that!?!?! I have seen a few kills but only because I have hunted for years. Most days hunting you will not see a kill. People would be very disappointed if they hunted for that reason :-)