To think if cars don't allow enough room for my bike, I have no choice but to go onto the pavement?

[Hammy02]

I cycle to work everyday but increasingly I've found that cars are so close to the pavement that I couldn't fit my bike inbetween. What am I supposed to do? I live in a city in which there are loads of bikes so locals should be used to cyclists. Unless it is tourists but still.

Have seen so many cyclists recently doing bloody stupid things. Mainly cycling far too fast and undercutting must come with wearing their brains on top of their heads

In fact a cyclist ran over my DS the other day whilst riding at a speed of god knows what past the entranced to his school

I've done the pavement-cycling thing a couple of times on MN. My handle should be "Panwhoridesonpavementsbutdoesntriskanyonessafetywhenhedoesandoesntwanttodieunderthewheelsofatosserofadriver". Or some such.

Pan, it's not fine, it's illegal. And makes you look like a prick.

Do you jump red lights too, because after all, you always do it carefully and couldn't possibly be the poor fool who does it and ends up under a lorry, right?

N, ED I am always careful about stuff like red lights and the like, and it's a bit annoying to see it when bikes do do that.

and your saying I look like a prick makes you sound like a real cunt.

I agree with pan. There's a bug difference between riding along a busy pavement full if shoppers, a suburban pavement with the possibilty of soneone appearing out of a gate or riding along a deserted pavement with no pedestrians around atall beside a busy stretch of fast moving rush hour traffic.

But unfortunately you can't rely on everyone being intelligent enough to make the judgement, so it's right that it's illegal and better to not do it atall.

Not really, pan, I don't break the law, endanger other people, then boast about it.

curious how some drivers get so 'challenged' by another road user so much smaller and so much more vulnerable than themselves. I think it's a sort of sense of entitlement. I also drive, usually at weekend, and being a bikist in the week I think makes me a better driver. Riding a motorbike years ago improved my driving immensely.

Btw, I love that pan admits he's careful with red lights - where the main danger is to him on his bike - but not with riding on the pavement, where the main danger is that he might kill or hurt someone else. Nice!

I bought a bike to ride to work. I have only ridden it once and it was terrifying, so I'm back to walking.

There is a cycle path from the bottom of my road all the way to work, and I don't have to cross any main roads. It wasn't the cars that frightened me, but the other cyclists. The cycle path is 2-way and quite narrow and I had several cyclists hurtling towards me at breakneck speed. Presumably they could tell I was a novice (lack of lycra etc being a clue) but still they gave me no room at all. (I also almost got run over on the pavement yesterday at 7am by an idiot with no lights on the same journey).

We haven't grown up with a cycling culture in this country so it really needs a lot more thought to try to sort out a workable solution. Our roads in the main are too narrow and shared pavements are dangerous.

no boasting, no endangering other people, only slight infringement of pavement stuff. And I very probably endanger fewer other people by virtue of bike riding than you do driving. I know it's 'logic' but if you try really hard you just may get it.

All I will say is if you do choose to ride on the pavement:

*PLEASE ring your bell to let me know that you're sneaking up behind me.

*Try not to take it personally if I seem irritated that I have to stop to pull to the side my pushchair and my other 2 children AGAIN for yet another cyclist to overtake when I'm just trying to get from A to B like you.

*And a ''thank you'' goes a long way.

Thanks.

If I were myopic, would that make it ok? I have no idea what you're getting at but in this context that's a pretty nasty thing to say, since partially-sighted people often point out what a danger bikes on pavements are.

It is arrogant and misguided in the extreme to pretend that illegally riding on the pavement is 'never' a danger - why? Do you fondly imagine others who ride on the pavement did so fully intending to hit people, and that's how you're different?

I have a lot of sympathy with cyclists and thank god, most of them are not like you.

bourbon - I never do any of that stuff - am uber polite knowing where I am. It's just that some roads, esp. dual carriageways in rush hour, are a grave-in-waiting as drivers compete for spaces.

So no, none of the stuff you describe.

Cyclists need proper cycle paths!

Although to be fair, it's never simple. As another non lycra clad slow cyclist, I agree that sometimes other cyclists make cycle paths dangerous. And more often than not it's the bloody pedestrians with their half dozen dogs and toddlers walking arm in arm, looking surprised when you ring your bell at them.

ok - I'll make it ABC. You present a greater risk to everyone on the road, by virtue of being a driver, compared to me who is a v careful cyclist and presents no risk to anyone. Is that ok now?

I usually walk, actually. Hence the comment about 'if I were myopic'.

And no, it's still not ok. It's illegal.

ditz - agreed; we need a proper system - and proper teaching for children learning to ride bikes (IMO cycle proficiency isn't up to it).

got to go - got some truck drivers I need to intimidate on my massive bike - had it fitted with bull bars and everything......

look - cyclist get slaughtered on the roads by shit drivers every day, which is illegal. So people like yourslef bleating 'but it's illegal!' make nooo difference to my survival decision-making. Sorry to break that bad news.

Anyway, I can see where pan's coming from, but can't totally agree. I think it's a bit arrogant to think you're completely in the right.

I've got to go now, so if any if the people come back who said things like they drive close to the left to stop bicycles having any room to get past so they don't hold them up, that they feel like opening their car doors etc come back, then please stick around so I can argue with you! Oh and read the highway code while you're waiting. Ta

Pan, you're making no sense. I rarely drive. When I do, I'm good. I've never been in an accident at all. I try very hard to be considerate to cyclists.

Mostly, though, I walk. I have been hit by cyclists, and I have also had to jump out of the way many more times. It is very dangerous. I know cycling on the roads in the UK is really hard and lots of drivers are bad to cyclists, but the solution is not to pass the danger on to other people so you can stay safer. That's inexcusable.

Pan, your attitude absolutely stinks. Nice language too - nothing like a bit of personal abuse to get your point across.

Cycling on the pavement is illegal for a good reason

josie - to be fair, I said cycling on the pavement made him look like a prick. The 'cunt' remarks were just tit-for-tat, and fair enough given that.

I could apologise for my personal abuse, but I'm afraid I do think this makes anyone look like a prick, and if I'm a cunt, I do not mind.

Useful things, cunts.

In conclusion OP YABU, you shouldn't ride on the pavement in those circumstances, although I can totally empathise with the annoyance and can agree that in some circumstances cycling in the pavement is not as dangerous as some think ( ie when there are no pedestrians).

But mostly the people in this thread who are being unreasonable are the twatty drivers who don't know their highway code and don't respect a cyclists right to get to the front of a stationary queue of traffic at a junction.

YABU. You clearly have no awareness of your own safety, the law or other people's safety either. In all honesty, you should wise up or walk.

After my husband was knocked off his bike TWICE in two months earlier this year, I echo what other people say about using the road like other road users and move out into the road. You have to be a more aggressive cyclist for your own safety. On both occasions the driver has been at fault - but its changed the way he cycles in order to make doubly sure he is seen by other road users.

Cars hate it but it makes a HUGE difference to your safety and how aware they are of you. If you are trying to pass cars on the left hand side you are putting yourself in enormous risk. Drivers won't necessarily see you - they are used to checking their right hand side rather than left and have a bigger blind spot on the left. Undertaking on the left-hand side, in particular with lorries, is the biggest cause of cyclist fatalities. You are being ridiculously moronic to even attempt it. If you must overtake in heavy traffic, going on the outside of cars is far safer simply because you have greater visibility but be aware of blind spots. If you are in traffic and are at lights, take advantage of cyclist safety areas in front of the stop line for other traffic. They help make sure you are seen.

Cycle lanes are a dreadful invention. They have been show to actually end up causing more accidents. They force cyclist into the worse space in the road, for visibility and it causes drivers to take the attitude that they should stay in the gutter on all roads. Not to mention that if you are cycling in the gutter, its more uneven and you are more likely to be thrown into traffic by a bump in the road than if you use the same tarmac as other road users. They make other road users take the attitude that you have less rights on the road than you.

As for cycling on the pavement. Its illegal to do so if you are over 18. You are putting pedestrians at risk. If you hit a pedestrian they have every right to sue you. Cyclists are starting to get cycle insurance as its a rising problem... people are starting to take action against cyclists.

If you aren't prepared to cycle like a car and put up with abuse from moronic drivers who think they own the road, then don't cycle. Best way to avoid the abuse? Buy a cycle-helmet cam. There are cheap ones for about £30 out there (though most are £200 - thing is you don't need it to actually work to make a difference). You'd be amazed at how much extra road space and respect they earn you from cars.