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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

should I forgive this man?

51 replies

kangers · 25/10/2011 09:10

My husband has used an 'odd job man' for a few years. A year ago he took some money that my husband gave him for buying doors and used it to pay some bailiffs. He also lied about it. He eventually put things right financially. My husband was irate at the time and it really affected us (affected timing of works and tenants moving in etc). I think this man is untrustworthy and once he has basically stolen from us, he could easily do this again. Dh keeps using him and he is doing some work at our house at moment. I just don't want him here, I think dh should have stopped using him. Dh is saying he has forgiven him, and as we are both Christians, so should I. But I can't- people have to understand that their actions have an effect and he is just learning that the 'thieving' is OK and forgivable. My dh thinks I am being V unreasonable. I think he is a walkover. What do you think??

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Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 09:55

Thank goodness you are answering my thread Georgi- he is great, lovely, kind, everyone thinks he's brill. But a bloody nightmare to live with. He is very selfish. He gets very unhappy and moody if he is EVER doing something he hasn't chosen to do. And he does not consult- we do not have a 'proper' relationship like that. (Been together 24 years) He just pleases himself and then goes on about things like me being unchristian not forgiving people...

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LydiaWickham · 25/10/2011 09:56

You can forgive someone for a particuar crime against you, that doesn't mean you have to forget it, or that they don't have to have repercussions for their actions - one would be that you can't trust this man to be alone in your house and you don't want to use him for work. This is very different to still being angry at him.

Your DH's attitude to you is far from Christian. Why doesn't he think your feelings matter? Why are you putting up with that? Why doesn't he think your opinion matters?

Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 10:00

Thanks Toddler and Lydia- very thoughtful comments.
If the man wasn't in my house I would not be thinking about it- I had 'forgiven' in a way.
My husband does think I am a harsh bitch (and I can be). Perhaps this is what happens when you have been together for so long. He sees me as a characture of myself and not the real me.

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Georgimama · 25/10/2011 10:00

I agree with Lydia entirely. I have no idea how you turn around a 24 year situation like this tbh. I wish I did. Have you ever said to him, "I admire everything you do, but I need you to put me and us first sometimes"? Have you ever told him his disregard for your happiness is not particularly Christian? I think you should.

Is there a minister or church elder who your husband would listen to if you used them as an intermediary or something? what would your husband say if you suggested some sort of counselling together through your church?

toddlerama · 25/10/2011 10:01

Sorry, but your DH is wrong to treat you like that. As he is obviously heavily influenced by what he believes to be 'christian' behaviour, you should try The Marriage Course. Lots of churches run it, it's a big group dinner and DVD with couples sat at tables for 2 and then the couples chat and work things out that have been raised as a 2, no group work, no therapist, but a structured set time to discuss what's bothering you. DH and I have done it twice (once before we were married at the recommendation of a friend) and it is brilliant.

Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 10:02

georgi my church (we have been there for 14 yrs) also buy in to the characatures- dh is lovely (has 8 people on Alpha at the mo) and I am the hard bitch. But I could try it. I think I may speak to him first though...

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toddlerama · 25/10/2011 10:03

[http://relationshipcentral.org/marriage-course link]]

Thistledew · 25/10/2011 10:03

That's the trouble (I have) with (how many people practise) Christianity: you can behave how you like to your fellow human beings, providing you can justify it by reference to the bible it must be 'right', whether it is a kind thing to do or not.

OP, there seem to be a great many people you come across who you consider to be 'wierdos' or 'waifs and strays', and it comes across that you make no effort to know them as human beings like yourself. You have no empathy or compassion for them. I am not saying that it is easy to treat people who make us uneasy in such a way, but your husband does seem to find it easier than you. Is it possible that he sees this man as more of a person, has taken the time to get to know him a little, has tried to understand him and his motivations, and feels he can trust him again?

There is, of course, no right way to go about this, and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to you or to the man who does the work whether you choose to turf him out on his ear or to engage with him as a fellow human. Yes, he might betray your trust again, but if you are looking for a moral/spiritual answer to this question, what is the lost of money or a material compared to the chance to show compassion and engage with a fellow human being, and maybe learn more or develop as a person yourself?

toddlerama · 25/10/2011 10:03

link

Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 10:04

toddler never heard of that- sounds good!! Me and dh ae very strong characters though- may be hard for it not to end in arguments....

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toddlerama · 25/10/2011 10:05

We bickered our way through the second one, but it was important stuff. An argument can be a very good thing!

Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 10:10

thistle agree. Am not biblically all that knowledgeable and know I can find contradictory evidence in the good book. But it is the source of Christianity so can't be ignired.
I see what you are saying- I just don't want to engage with everyone I meet. I am very judgemental- I spend lots of time engaging with and being compassionate to the A level students I teach, and I do not have the energy at other times. My dh is great with WW&S, but I am not. Surely we must acknowledge our strengths. I am a bit too much of a 'why on earth are you doing that- sort it out' type of person. Solution focussed which is not always helpful- but good with the students when trying to get the grades.

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Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 10:11

ignored

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worldgonecrazy · 25/10/2011 10:13

I'm not a Christian (opposite end of the spectrum!) but I do think that what is lacking is compassion and offering the chance of redemption.

This man stole from you and he has done his best to put it right. From your OP it sounds like he was in a desparate situation. Have you tried talking to the man about how you feel and how he feels about it? You may surprise yourself.

Your relationship with your husband is another matter. Your DH ignoring your feelings and exhibiting selfishness is something you need to address, and not through religion, but through humanity - treating each other as human beings with feelings, emotions and every other thing that comes with it.

Acting like a shit all week and then asking for forgiveness on a Sunday is a cop out.

Thistledew · 25/10/2011 10:16

I can understand not having energy for everyone. Perhaps then this is a time to take a step back and let your husband handle it. Trust his judgement? Try not to have to control every situation? You may find you have more energy for other things if you are not wasting negative energy on something you can pass responsibility for.

Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 10:18

world agree with your final comment- I thankfully do not know many who do this.
This thread has raised many issues for me- dh/ relationship, being more compassionate myself, and image people have of me/dh that may be false (and what I do to maintain that image).
Hmmm lots to work on..

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Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 10:19

good point Thistle- that's another issue- CONTROL- I am a control freak- how do you stop that!!!!!!!!!

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Ormirian · 25/10/2011 10:26

Your marriage and your different expectations and attitudes are the real issue aren't they? I'd be pissed off if DH ignored my feelings. But that wasn't what the thread was about originally so I answered that. FWIW I have a DH who is the life and soul when he's in the pub or with friends but who can be a sulky arse at home - it's frustrating when someone has 2 characters and everyone else only see the nice one.

But I do think it's a shame you seem so intolerant of people who don't fit.

Thistledew · 25/10/2011 10:41

Letting go of control is a hard one - I struggle with it myself. One way that I have made progress with this is through my relationship with my DP. I trust his judgement. He may not do things in exactly the same way as I would, and in some cases may not make exactly the same decisions, but I trust him to make a thoughtful, reasonable and sensible decision.

There are aspects of our life together that are more important to me or capture my interest more, so I take the lead role in decision making and carrying out these things. I could make the decisions or try to impose my will about every decision, but it is actually rather nice that I don't have to.

For me, it is an expression of the love in our relationship that I trust him to make decisions for us both, and an acknowledgement of his love for me that he will make good decisions and not ones that will cause me difficulties later on.

GreenBlueRed · 25/10/2011 10:49

My oh my, the responses on this thread! Trust your dh to make all your decisions for you? Give up control? Bollocks! If you don't trust this workman, and on such excellent grounds as him having stolen from you before, don't have him in your house. It's your house too, a shared house, which means you both get to make decisions about what happens in it. Chrsitianity has got nothing to do with it. If your relationship doesn't have the fundamental respect - going BOTH ways - so that it means that your opinions on things like this are overruled, you have massive problems, no matter what your community think of your 'wonderful' dh. You are equals, and so should have equal decision making powers.

Post this again in Relationships, and see if you get different responses.

And only have people in your house that you feel comfortable with.

squeakyfreakytoy · 25/10/2011 10:55

I do think there is a big difference between someone actually stealing money, and someone using money that has been given to them for another purpose, then getting completely stuck and unable to replace it. I suspect the bloke panicked because of the bailiffs, and thought he would be able to borrow the money he had used from somewhere else. As he has paid it back too, I would be inclined to be more forgiving than if he had just stolen it from a purse in the house.

worraliberty · 25/10/2011 11:00

Are you sure your DH doesn't just keep using him because he's cheaper than the others and gets the job done?

Ultimately that's why a lot of people stick with local odd job men.

Thistledew · 25/10/2011 12:32

GreenBlueRed. I think you have mid-read some of the posts on this thread. I am not a Christian, and I am certainly not advocating letting your DP/DH make all the decisions. In my relationship, I make some, he makes others, and other ones are joint decisions.

The OP seemed to be saying that she recognised that there is no one right approach to her issue, and that she was looking for alternative ways to deal with it. Forgive me if I am wrong, OP, but it did not seem like you were asking "it is really important that this man never darkens our doors again, how can I convince my husband of this?". Her question was about whether to forgive the man and trust him again as her husband apparently does, and I hope that the posters on this thread have helped her gain some insight as to why she has not been able to do so so far, and how she can work towards this if she chooses.

starfishmummy · 25/10/2011 12:47

I'm not sure it is really an issue about his previous dishonesty. It is one thing to "forgive" him for what he did but if you don't like the person then why have him in the house?

Original poster

kangers · 25/10/2011 17:14

thistle you read me right and yo and others have been really really helpful.
Been out shooping and cooking a Christmas cake this pm. I think I will name change and post this on relationships.
GreenBlueRed I may be a Christian but I do not fit many people's ideas about Christian women. I am not being controlled but trying to understand this issue as I feel really strongly that when someone proves themselves untrustworthy then it is foolish to let them get too close again (unless they are family and even then sometimes not). Me and dh keep clashing over it...
Anyway, he is not here today- so its been a better day.

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