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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel shocked at the coverage of Gaddafi's death?

267 replies

IvySedaiballs · 20/10/2011 18:56

I don't think she should have been killed like that. IMO he should have been captured, tried and then hanges or whatever. they had him, alive. apparently he was begging for mercy.
now he is dead and can not answer for his vile crimes.

none of the newscoverage that I have seen has addressed this, everyone is just celebrating. yes, he was a bad man, but this doesn't sit right with me.

also, showing pictures of hos dead body body on the six pm news?!

OP posts:
screamingbohemian · 21/10/2011 14:42

Muffin don't be daft

It's perfectly possible to give your people free health care and electricity and water without also chucking them into jail, torturing dissidents and funding warlords who killed thousands of people in West Africa.

And yes, I know a lot about this, I've been reading and researching in this area for years.

screamingbohemian · 21/10/2011 14:43

Yes bin Laden is dead

Even Al Qaeda have admitted it's true

what's wrong with people?

bemybebe · 21/10/2011 14:45

Muffin even if some of what you said is true, where did your do-goody Gaddafi was getting the funds to support his projects? Out of his own pocket a-la charitable projects funded by Buffet, Gates or Jobs? You should go and do your research a bit more thoroughly, he was using resources that are the property of the state of Libya. Instead he was using the country's riches to do what he pleases - build a palace here and there and, yes, crumbs to the people. That is how he stayed in power for 40 years.

History is a great subject to study.

headfairy · 21/10/2011 14:46

muffin I don't know what you're reading, but I don't know how someone who crushes dissenters with torture and murder can be good for the majority of the country? Even if you are not directly affected by the terrible things that go on, would you want to live in a country like that? Seriously? Ask yourself that. Would you want your children growing up under that kind of regime? He was truly evil, and I for one am glad he's been deposed (though I would rather have seen him face a trial - if only for the discomfort it would have caused Tony Blair :o)

Muffincrazy · 21/10/2011 14:55

bemybebe I am quite prepared to bow to others more knowledgeable on Gaddafi than I, but each side has a different version of history, don't they?

All I'm saying is I am no longer sure he was as bad as the agenda-led west have portrayed him.

But I must say, you all sound very convincing so i'm neither here nor there!

MrPants · 21/10/2011 14:55

Most of us on these boards have never lived in tyranny. Most of us will never have seen a battlefield. Most of us will not know the emotions in a soldier when he comes across a pile of bodies of his comrades who have been summarily executed after they have been captured by Gadaffi's forces. I don't feel qualified to pass a judgement on what these people did yesterday. (That?s assuming he was executed, the BBC was reporting last night that he was killed in crossfire)

The thing about civil war is that it certainly isn't civil. War of any sort is a bloody awful affair where fit, healthy and sane human beings try their damnedest to kill other fit, healthy and sane human beings. Take a good look at your child (my 9MO daughter is sat on the floor playing with some building blocks), how serious would your quarrel with another person have to be before you'd jeopardise your own child?s wellbeing? That is the question we ask of parents when we send our armies off to war. A parent?s grief is just a part of the price we pay when one of our squaddies doesn't come home.

I am an atheist. I believe that when we die, that's it. We are obliterated. No afterlife. I think that because of my beliefs I see human life as precious almost beyond measure. To paraphrase John Donne, I believe that when the bell tolls it tolls for us all. Witnessing scenes of Gadaffi both immediately before and immediately after his death were hard to watch. There was a lot of emotion on display. Compare that image though with those from Lockerbie. Consider the fact there is evidence to suggest that some Pan Am 103 passengers would have been alive and conscious until their moment of impact several minutes after the explosion. They were innocent victims, Gadaffi was certainly guilty.

So I do think the coverage of his death was mawkish and voyeuristic but lets use it to see what death looks like, to understand how horrific it is and how it offends our sensitivities. Perhaps then we will get some perspective on how barbarous this bastard really was and remember that his victims often suffered similar or worse fates and most will lie unremembered in an unmarked grave somewhere in Libya.

headfairy · 21/10/2011 14:58

Muffin the west may well have an agenda, but people within Libya who tell of the horrendous nature of Gaddafi's crimes don't.

There are two sides to every story of course, and I'm sure Gaddafi's friends and family will tell you he was a wonderful and misunderstood man. I'm not sure you'll find many others who would say that though.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 21/10/2011 15:00

heres the links, its your choice if you want to read them as they are distressing

shabablibya.org/news/gaddafi-raped-his-female-bodyguards

www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=42607

there are also missing children in misrata but it cant be confirmed who has taken them. It could have been the government or the rebels.

Either way lets hope that some sort of order is now brought to the country and children cant just be taken and trafficked over the border Sad or go into the prison system never to be seen again.

There are many other mass killing and toture aticles, from what ive read one of his sons was and extremely nasty piece of work. Hes being hunter as has crossed the border.

larrygrylls · 21/10/2011 15:18

Do you think the West would ever have let him be captured alive. Apparently the French air force strafed his fleeing column. I am sure there was a bounty on his head. Can you imagine the tales he could have told of lavish hospitality from all the politicos, dodgy oil deals with their mates. Sarko, Blair etc are breathing a huge sigh of relief.

boohoohoo · 21/10/2011 15:19

Oh no please let's not go down the 'he wasn't that bad' route. He was a totally evil man, hundreds of thousands of people suffered under his regieme. Torture, rape and execution was rife in Lybia, thousands disappeared.

I hate violence and would usually condem a killing of anyone, but, but, I can't imagine how those men who found him yesterday felt, they/ their family/friend s have suffered so much under this man, I can sort of understand how they executed him there and then.

BrainDeadSurgeon · 21/10/2011 15:37

Ivy I was in Romania too in 1989. I think I have an idea of how you feel.
I was only 18 and I remember watching on TV the execution of Ceausescu and his wife. It's hard to describe the feeling..... there was an elelment of revenge - they had destroyed the country and killed and tortured a huge number of people - but mostly, I felt some sort of disgust.... two miserable old people... did they really have to be shot like that - it was horrific. I never watched it again although it was shown over and over.
I wish they were trialed and imprisoned. And I definitely wish I never saw them being killed.

RainboweBrite · 21/10/2011 15:50

OP, I haven't read through all the thread, but I completely agree that he should have been brought to trial instead of executed. I can understand the anger of his own people was very difficult to contain and I wouldn't like to judge too much as I haven't been in their shoes, but to my mind two wrongs don't make a right. And I find it very distasteful that other world leaders talk openly about welcoming his death.

Tooodlepip · 21/10/2011 16:03

Hi

My husband was one of Ghadaffi's victims of torture at the age of 15 years old, the libyan people had the right to do as they wished with him, in my own opinion.

chill1243 · 21/10/2011 16:10

we are shocked about this war death; because our main TV channels do not
normally show people who have been killed in battle.

That is an editorial decision, I suppose. Presumably to protect our sensitivities. How many people died in the Libyian operation. Perhaps we
will never know. Would Mumsnetters like to know?

Romilly70 · 21/10/2011 16:14

The news used to be a bit more discreet, but by broadcasting such graphic images pre-watershed, people are getting desensitised to the brutalities of war, which is not a good thing.

I am not condoning anything that Gaddaffi has done, but there is a definite pattern of the west supporting the dictators of oil rich states and manipulating the whole situation so that they get their ultimate aim oil.

We are all just being manipulated and whilst we are debating the details of gaddaffi's killing, the west will now be manipulating the rebels who "owe" then billions for their support which will be repaid in oil.

IvysEdgelessSafetycube · 21/10/2011 16:20

braindead exactly. I am not a great believer in revenge, but I would like to believe in justice. there should have been a trial, just so they could answer for their crimes, and maybe clear up a few of those mysteries that people still wonder about. same with Gaddafi.
I can absolutely understand the Lybians' desire to kill him on the spot, but that is not how it should have happened, IMO.

boohoohoo · 21/10/2011 16:28

Totally agree Romilly.

chill1243 · 21/10/2011 16:44

One TV journo said....people would not have believed he was dead without the pictures being published. (I suppose he was thinking of a million conspiracy theories.)

there will still be conspiracy theories; but not many credible ones.

John Simpson was shocked by it. And being a frontline BBC TV man he has seen more dead bodies than I have had hot dinners.

I think it may be a "one off" case of publishing such pictures. Our main TV channels will go back to the old routine BUT THE PRESS will do as they like....
as usual

AuntieMaggie · 21/10/2011 16:47

Just went to read the online news and there are pictures everywhere - I don't want to see them and am anggry that kids could be seeng them! If they want to publish them online don't put them on the front page!

jjkm · 21/10/2011 16:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 21/10/2011 17:10

I disagree, i think libya will be better off with him out the way. Even if he was captured there is the chance he could somehow get away or buy his way out of it whilst in libya. I could be proved wrong of course.

Theres still the threat of his brother in law and torturer son who are still at large and have support. If he was alive and made it over the boarder who knows what could have happened.

I dont think most of the people in the country supported him. The case of Huda Ben Amer proves that. They were frightened into not doing anything with people doing whatever it took to please him. Hudas, death was more horrific than gadaffis and played out on tv i believe.

There was also the Bulgarian nurse scandle in 2002. He knew exactlly how to mould a generation of people and governments alike.

No, imo he is better off dead so the Libyan people know he will never dominate them again.

i do agree that our government should not be trusted though. Clegg was on saying they were not going to interfere but who knows

chill1243 · 21/10/2011 17:30

yes, fifis, us being policeman of the world is ludicrous.

aliceliddell · 21/10/2011 17:43

jjkm I reluctantly agree with you. Reluctant because defending the potential democratic future of the country will be misinterpreted as defending Gadaffi.

headfairy · 21/10/2011 17:55

Its interesting because we've had the voices on the mobile phone footage of him being mobbed translated, and most of them are saying don't kill him. I think lots of Libyans would like to see him give an explanation for some of his actions. I understand the points raised by Fifi, they're very real worries, but I think the Arab union had turned their backs on him, even the African Union viewed him with scepticism. I'm not sure who'd shelter him. Chavez probably but the logisitics of getting a hunted man out of the UN's clutches and to Venezuela are huge.

valentia · 21/10/2011 18:03

Yes he was a horrible evil man and he probably would have ended up dead anyway, but I still find it disgusting the way he was dragged and paraded around before being executed (this does not mean I am not interested in current events but why would anyone think that is ok?!). I thought the Rebels wanted to be different from him.