To be getting really fed up with my students' racism/sexism etc.

[yellowraincoat]

I work in adult education, teaching English as a foreign language. Sometimes I love it, but recently I've started really really hating it.

One of the main problems is that a large number of my students say racist, sexist, homophobic things and I never know how to handle it. Sometimes, when they say something overtly racist, it's easy to know what to say, but it's so insidious that a lot of the time, I'm completely flummoxed and just let it lie because I feel it's not my job to educate them in being reasonable human beings.

An example from today: "I saw an Indian guy on the tube today beat his wife. He wasn't poor-looking, he was well-dressed".

For a start, I can almost guarantee the guy wasn't Indian, but probably Pakistani or Bangladeshi - for another, it's totally irrelevant to the story what nationality he was. But in my class, no matter how often I tell them, they say "Indian" for all countries in South Asia and "Chinese" for all countries in East/SE Asia.

For another thing, the idea that poor people are violent really annoyed me.

Almost every day, I get comments about gay people. "Oh I hate going out in Soho, it's full of gays."

But it doesn't seem to matter how often we have the discussion ("how do you feel when people think people from your country are all the same?" and so on) they will come out with something the next day or week. Then in 2 months I'll have new students and they'll start the same process all over again.

I need a new job.

OK, thanks for all replies. I've been thinking about this a lot and I'm really grateful for all of your thoughts.

My students are mostly from Europe (Italy, Spain) and South America.

The problem is that my school is v much a tinpot privately-run thing, as are many TEFL schools, where I am pretty much left to do my own stuff. It's not as if there is one intake of students for 3 or 6 or whatever months, I have some for 1 month, some for a week, some for 6 months - it's all very chaotic.
I suppose it just gets tiring telling them time and time again, because I have different students all the time. I'm sure they have a policy on racism and so on, but I really wonder if I would be heard if I asked about it. It's definitely something I should investigate.

Of course, in their cultures, it is often much more acceptable to say racist or homophobic things. One of the things I find helpful is to explain that in the UK, people try not to say things that others may find offensive (rose-tinted I KNOW). I tell them they need to think before they speak, because our culture is quite different from their's.

For the people who said they didn't find the comment offensive - I just find they mention race a whole lot more often than they need to - it is totally irrelevant if the guy was Indian, it is ridiculous to describe someone as Chinese when they are Japanese. I'm not saying everyone should know exactly how people from each country look, but surely describing them as "Asian" would be preferable. I have no problem with that, it's just the lazy guessing that bothers me.

The other thing that bothers me is that I feel like it's not my business to tell them what to think. Most of my students are here for a short time, a month or so, to improve their English before going home. They are generally not that bothered by what our culture is like here.

Maybe I've just become a bit immune to it after so long teaching. In certain countries where I've lived, racism was so ingrained that it just ended up washing over me and so I've just gritted my teeth and got on with it. It's awful though: today a student told me that he loved swimwear parties (something they have in Italy) because it meant he could touch up the girls. Maybe in the course of blokey chat, that'd be acceptable to some. In class, it's just awful.

Think I'm just going to have to keep on with the "in this country, it's considered impolite to mention people's race/sexual preference/whatever unless it's relevant" ad infinitum.

It makes perfect sense that it would get you down - as you say, it's not individual comments.

Sorry to be dull and repeat myself ... it's not possible to email them before they start banning discriminatory language? Then simply say 'that comment comes under the heading of the discriminatory language that is banned'?

They didn't have them in Italy when I lived there. I did get "biondina" shouted at me in the street regularly. It was totally normal to be very racist and certainly lump people together into groups which were offensive and ignorant (including calling people from the South terroni and people from North Africa Marrochini). It is quite a homogeneous society (very Catholic and white) and therefore people have not been challenged either overtly or by experience.

I really think just treating it as another part of their 'education' is the thing. Trying to say that they will find it hard to make friends here may work. I don't know if there is any way of conveying that the same people who hold those views here will hate them for being foreigners.

Having worked in environments where I have had to listen to this kind of thing a lot (working with offenders, in prisons and homeless hostels), I feel your pain.

"the same people who hold those views here will hate them for being foreigners."

Great point! DH works with a Russian who's annoyed that British "snobs" (as he puts it; I think he means elitist types) don't recognise him as "one of them" (that is, a snob/elitist type)! He's sort of aware of the irony, but is still put out!

Johnny foreigner hypocrite

plupervert that is funny! I have also had people tell me that they moved to Canada from the UK because of all the immigration into the UK

You could always mention that racism, sexism, homophobia is not tolerated here and can in fact result in prosecution. Speak to your boss as you should be able to tell them that if they continue with this behaviour they will not be welcome back. your employer has a duty to protect you from this sort of behaviour. Is there anyway you could teach these matters as part of the course. In one place where I learnt a foreign language we had to read a piece about a civil partnership and write about it.

You could also try giving a small talk at the beginning of each course telling them that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

Haha, parts of Canada are all-immigrant (white)! We were there in the backwoods this summer, and didn't see a non-white face till Toronto, except for one possible Native American (or First Nation person) in Canada Tire* [sic].

• 'Course, the "Second Nation" (British) way of spelling that ought to be "tyre", but Canada's got a real mix of influences... again, funny, for a place which earned the approval of those recent immigrants you mentioned!

theres one thing worse than racism, stupid people i don't understand whats racist and whats not

Thing is - you're in the wrong job if you're offended by these students. They, by definition, aren't from 'round 'ere and you can't expect people from different cultures to fit in with english PC standards.

One could almost say, you're being rather intolerant of these foreigners yourself

rock - sorry, but that is rubbish! If you teach overseas students, you are still entitled to discrimination-free workplace. Why wouldn't you be?!

"You could always mention that racism, sexism, homophobia is not tolerated here and can in fact result in prosecution".

The problem is that these things are actually acceptable to a lot of Brits, even though they are not officially tolerated. I wouldn't be particularly surprised to hear a Brit say any of the things the OP has quoted.

You are not going to change their attitudes in a TEFL class.

As somewherewest said, both of yor examples would not be considered particularly offensive in parts of the UK so - as someone else said - to sugest that " You could always mention that racism, sexism, homophobia is not tolerated here and can in fact result in prosecution " very much depends upon where " here " is.

They may come from countries or communities with different social norms, and they probably don't mean to offensive - just unaware that social rules are different. It's part of language teaching to explain what's not socially acceptable to say in English (or in England) and why. You can have a very interesting discussion about it.

By the way, it's interesting how British expats turn from PC to casually racist when they're free from the social constraints of their own country.

I would have a chat with your manager/dept head Yellow.
Don't try to deal with this alone if it's bothering you.

quite irrelevant but also kinda relevant; when i was at a college years ago we had to watch this video-well snapshots of various people- and write what we thought they did for a living. some looked like business men/women, some looked like tramps etc..at the end we were told what they all did or what they were. Of course the one who looked like a tramp was a millionaire, the business man was a milkman etc...it was about not judging people of course.

Maybe u could do something like this with your students?

They probably don't mean to be offensive but the line has to be drawn somewhere. it's a thin line between what is harmless banter or chat and what is offensive language.

I was taught to do a set of ground rules at the start of each course, with discussion & negociation on some points with the students. You can state the non-negotiables (racist/homophobic/sexist comments not allowed/ Mobiles off/no spitting etc etc) which might lead to an interesting debate as Vess said.

Keep a set of the rules on a board nearby & refer back to it as needed. It actually works quite well.

Absolutely, Vess. The number of British expats I met when living in Dubai who said they had moved there because of 'all the immigrants in the UK' was astonishing. And then they used to tie themselves into knots getting annoyed at the restrictiveness of Dubai dress, decency and alcohol laws, and the loudness of the early-morning call to prayer from mosques, but simultanously claiming that they respected the Emirati authorities for enforcing their way of life on foreign residents, because the UK should do the same.

OP, this must be endlessly depressing, and I agree that even if you can't expect yourself to change people's prejudices in short periods, you are entitled to a discrimination-free workplace. Can you see what the official school policy is for some shorthand ways of dealing with this? I appreciate that you can't launch into anti-racist diatribes every time you get this from a student.

yy, it is your classroom- state your rules, and what is/isn't acceptable, with an explanation.

I do not think getting peopes country of origin wrong is racist , I would describe being described as an american if I was actually canadian as annoying not racist,

it s like having a big bee in your bonnet when a shop keeper in singapore describes you as english rather than british when you are actually welsh, the person who mixes up japenese chinese and malaysians is not being racist, if they say i hate japenese/italians or what ever thenthey are but the use of the word indian is not actually racist the tone maybe but that's different

I'm a TEFL teacher too OP, and I totally know what you mean. I teach professional adults (not in the UK though) and while the vast majority are great, there have been a few times when a student has come out something so discriminatory or shocking to me that it's difficult not to rise to it. I have to say it's a rarity though - your position sounds a lot more difficult to put up with. If it's really a recurrent problem, I like the previous idea of stating a no-racism / no-sexism rule at the beginning of each course.

I agree though with what you say in your last post, ultimately it's not our job to teach them how to think. I always correct them if they use language in a way that could give offence - typical example is referring to black people as "blacks" - lots of students do this completely innocently and they don't understand the connotations of saying that in English. And I think that teaching a bit about British/American/Australian/whatever culture is good too. But generally if someone says something outrightly racist or sexist or whatever, I do an eyebrow raise and change the subject. They usually get the idea.

Actually the most shocking thing I heard was from a guy I taught who would occasionally come out with "anecdotes" about how he disciplined his children (no violence involved, just other hard-line stuff that most people left behind 50 years ago). I found it shocking, he clearly thought they cast him in a great light and always seemed very proud of himself. Very difficult to bite my tongue and change the subject rather than get into a debate...but I managed it. Just. Luckily I only had to teach him a few times.

It is offensive to refer to people from the Indian Subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) as Indian. It is also rude to call a Vietnamese person Chinese. It's like calling a Scot or Welsh person English! If unsure, I tend to stick to Asian as a generic term. And what does their race/culture have to do with the story about beating a wife? A simple "I saw a man beating his wife" would have sufficed. By mentioning the race they are inferring that he beat his wife because he is Indian.

why dont you just ignore it? what would you have preffered them to say to describe the "indian man"? also how on earth can you say its very unlikely more likely to be bangladeshi instead? Isnt that just as bad if not worse?

I don't think the OP should ignore it. I think you need to confront it in a calm, measured way. After all, part of learning a language is learning about the cultures and norms of that society. Perhaps you need to plan a lesson where students can debate the British anti-racism law, maybe opening with a newspaper article on the topic. This way, you aren't confronting the students directly, you are introducing our society's expectations and norms. You can then introduce the idea of political correctness, debate the rights and wrongs of it etc...

I think you are Being Oversensitive OP - they don't even know the bluddy language, never mind the nuances of the culture, certainly not your particular views on what is right and wrong.

(And how the do you know the Indians were more likely to be Bangladeshi or Pakistani - is it only those that beat their wives in your view - now that is the most appalling bit of racism on the whole thread)

And telling a foreigner who doesn't know the word for Chinese that her using a universal hand signal was offensive IMO tells me the issues are yours, not theirs.

How do I know the "Indian" was more likely to be Bangladeshi or Pakistani? Because I live in an area with a lot of people from Bangladesh and Pakistan but very few from India, that's why. Not because I think people from Bangladesh/Pakistan are more likely to be violent fgs.

I know my students don't know the nuances of the culture. That's the problem! That's why I'm asking what I should do about it. It is a massive issue in teaching English because on the one hand I don't want to have to listen to racist shit, on the other, I don't want to impose my values on them.

Making a hand gesture to indicate someone's Chinese? Yeah, that's not racist

I'm Scottish and although it riles me when someone says I'm English, it doesn't upset me. However, a Japanese girl in my class was really upset one day when someone did the very same hand gesture described as not racist. I have a duty to protect other people in my class from that.