To find Telegraph Poll: 'Should London Cafes Become Child Free Venues' offensive and discriminatory?

[greengoose]

AIBU to think that this poll, where currently 43% think children should be banned from cafes, is discriminatory and would never be allowed to be written about any other section of our society?
The article and poll can be found here: TELEGRAPH POLL
In the comments bellow there is an 'anti child' rant suggesting children should be unwelcome everywhere from small shops (which should have a no buggy policy) to cafes and galleries).
This has made me spitting bullets TBH, I cant believe the 'anti child' culture in this country sometimes (and especially in the capitol IME), I do understand people should keep their kids under control in cafes, but to turn that discussion into a 'ban kids' poll is downright awful....... the telegraph, which I dont support anyway, should be utterly ashamed.

I very rarely see children misbehaving in city centre restaurants. But in the well off area I live, it is not uncommon. As I said before, there are always kids behaving beautifully and parents who will take a crying baby outside. But kids running about in the pub during the day - check, parents who refuse to take a crying baby or toddler outside - check, kids running around in restaurants or just being very noisy - check. Absolutely terrible behaviour is rare, but this kind of behaviour is pretty common ime

Home while the children are down the pub :o

Piglet The one sidedness is in the article.... there is a description of annoying kids in cafe that we can prob. all relate to, but no counter argument that most kids are actually well behaved and just kids.... and then we vote.

I like taking my kids to cafes, and galleries, and small shops that drive me mad by stacking boxes in isles so nobody using wheels can get through.... and in order to take them to these places Ive managed their behaviour and so have they on the whole...... I just think the article swayed the no vote, and went on a bit of an anti child rant.

I dont know why, as someone said already, I was expecting an unbiased article from a paper anyway, i just found it sad, and jumping on a particular anti-child part of british culture that i run into on my frequent visits to the capitol far more than in our rural town, or on mainland europe (now Ive opened myself up for a whole new bunch of critics.... oops)!

so you wanted an article more along the lines of

some children misbehave when they are in cafes and some children behave themselves when they are in cafes and some children misbehave in cafes and the parents wisk them away so they don't annoy other people

vote for which of the three above you prefer to happen

No Ivy, thats not what I want, I didnt ask for the article at all, I am just commenting that I think they have written a bias article that jumps on the back of a cultural sway that I find difficult, and then presented it for vote..... I think its cheap and inspires a negative view of kids that I spend quite a bit of time coming up against.

Im off to eat some chocolate now that my first brave attempt at AIBU thread has clearly gone down in flames..... I will come back when I am less pregnant and try again, I may change my name. (the luxury of that, just think if that was so easy after humiliation in the RW)!

TCOB - with all due respect, what are you talking about?

Racists, sexists, homophobes, people who don't worship at the alter of childhood - if you're one of the above, you're quite likely to be all of the above? Behave.

And as for "(...the cliched but true image of families out in sunny squares in the evening springs to mind) but with cross, fucked-up, inwardly seething little Britons this would never work."

What are you on about? What would never work? No, you never see families out and about in parks and shared spaces in Britain. No, never... [hhmm]

Oh, and one last thing. It's not only Brits posting on this site. I'm not one, for a start (although did live there for well over a decade and distinctly recall seeing families out and about every time I stepped out of my door on more than one occasion).

Goose, I think you did pretty well for a first AIBU - no flaming, a few rows and some . Enjoy your chocolate :)

If it is pissing it down outside which it does all too frequently where are you meant to whish crying babies and tantruming toddlers to?

In all honesty I do try and stop the tantrum when in public, its not always possible.

And I guess when I can't stop it I normally see it as time to go as the kids have had enough. Kids shouldn't be made to spend ages in a cafe when young. I just don't think we should start banning kids. Tolerance goes a long way to harmony.

I agree we shouldn't start banning children, but I can see why some places would want to!! I hate seeing children tantruming its bad enough when its mine but at least I can do something to try to stop that!!

I think you have hit on a good point though, often the tantrums come from boredom and who can blame them. Young children aren't designed to sit for a long period of time and parents need to remember that when planning to go out for a meal somewhere. I keep crayons and books in DS bag which is great at keeping him distracted when waiting for food to arrive. After we have eaten then we don't hang around so he doesn't have time to get bored.

I am all for children being taken out to places and parents not having to not to do things because they have children but at the same time parents do need to adapt how they do it!!

Wait, what, ALL cafes in London? Right. Nutjob 'childfree' wankers. How much business do they think they're going to get during the day if they ban huge swathes of the human population? And why the fuck can't people who want 'adult time' use their common sense and go to a bar or a posher cafe where people don't take children anyway (or at least I don't, and I don't know anyone who takes children into bars; maybe London folks are different)? It's not like there aren't places people can go for that already, so they really are just whiny entitled little twits (and if 40% of the UK are whiny entitled little twits, then yes, that is a bit sad).

One of the Telegraph's options is for establishments to "be allowed to tell [children] and their parents to leave" if the DC behave badly.

But surely proprietors are allowed to do that anyway?

I think it gives a negative view of some parents TBH and not the children

Whilst I don't think children should be banned I do think there should be a cap on the amount of buggies and children that can be allowed in at one time. It is getting a bit ridiculous that so many large buggies are allowed to take up so much of the cafe floor space as well as dangerous (and you can just imagine what the reaction would be if you happened to trip and splash scalding hot coffee over someone else's child)

Also babies being allowed to just cry for ages. Unless I absolutely had no choice, when my children cried I would leave if I couldn't get my child to calm down after a reasonable amount of time.

I really do think it is a case of people expecting everyone else to bend over backwards for their children without regard for others.

Also if we're going to ban just noisy kids, can we also ban stag/hen groups, who are just as noisy (if not usually more so), just as dangerous, and far more intimidating? Or wait, that would be picking on 'the cool people' rather than on mothers who already have a hard enough time and are the designated scapegoat for the UK. Oh well, sorry then.

I spent three evening a week in June and July around 6pm - 8pm in a park in a lovely area and never did see any families in the park with small children - it was rather weird, there where a few older people doing dog walking but not families in the park the play equipment lay empty and the paddling pool

can I cut through swathes of this thread?

I'm an adult. When I go out I like to be in adult frequented places. I'm also a parent. I choose where is appropriate for my children to go to.

There are places I dont think are child appropriate - purely because adults want to be in an adult environment.

Some places should be 'child free' in the same way that some places should be 'child welcoming'.

When out I have seen plenty of places with signs saying they don't allow hen and stag parties Wibbly.

Ivy - surely at that time most people with young children will be getting them to bed? I would have thought during the day or at least before 5pm would be a much better indication of how well a park is used.

Nice try Wibbly, but all you've achieved with this reader is to have her nodding her head. Go ahead and ban the stag/hen partyers, there a fecking PITA too.

There? "They're" is what I meant.

Sirzy -it was like a ghost park, a few dog walkers -but even they where think on the ground.

Not all smaller children go to bed before 8pm - do they?

I think it struck me that it was such a shame so few people where in the park evening after evening, we didn't mind as it meant we had the place to ourselves which was great for what we wanted

I have stood outside places in the rain with a screaming baby or toddler. We do have coats you know! I know its not wonderful, but why should my kids screaming or crying be infected on anyone else?

wibblybibbly - Yes hen and stag parties can be incredibly annoying and noisy. Which is why lots of restaurants, cottages, campsites, etc ban them. And also why some places cater especially for them. The comparison is a load of rubbish anyway - stag and hen parties are pretty much confined to certain places and times. Not at 7pm, in my decidedly local boring pub (for stag and hens) pubs, not in my local cafes in the afternoon, etc.

And i know how many places ban stag and hen parties because loads of places have rules about large all male and female groups. As a lesbian I have had to explain loads of times when booking - no honestly we are not a hen party!

Ivy, I would have thought the majority are, or at least at home getting ready for bed not out at a park.