to be getting alarmed at how Catholic the Catholic school is?

[ButterP]

I know, I know...

I really didn't want DD1 to go to a faith school. If other people want to bring up thier children within a faith, that is thier choice, but it is not ours. While we teach them to respect other faiths and belief systems, and of course we want them to have a good knowledge of the bible etc for cultural reasons, I really was not keen on sending her somewhere where she would be taught it as fact. But then I didn't want her at school full stop, so there you go.

However, we applied, on time, to the eight nearest schools (all the ones within a half hour bus ride) and none of them had a place. Eventually, just before the schools broke up for the holiday, we got a phonecall to say a place had come up at the outstanding-ofstead, right next to the ILs (who do a lot of childcare for us), academic reputation (which would fit with our family - not that we are all clever, but we are bookish) and loads of green space school where DH went to nursery. He didn't however go to the actual school, because it is Catholic, and his parents are not. In fact, nobody in our families is.

DH was very keen for her to go - he admires the work ethic that he says catholic schools have, he thinks she will get much better teaching in public speaking, the classics, latin and so on. I doubt that any primary state school does this, but the school does seem really nice, and it was pretty much the only option without her being sent to the other side of the city.

I asked on our visit about the catholic aspect, and the teacher reassured me that it is just two prayers a day. We prayed at my secular school, so that is fine, and I really don't mind her learning to cross herself etc. According to the admissions data, only about 40% of each year is Catholic anyway.

We decided that we would just not volunteer for churchy things (mainly because I wouldn't know what to do if required to do anything beyond bowing my head respectfully, and would feel a bit insulting towards the Catholics if I was to fake it, iyswim). With DD, we have gone for a "some people believe the bible is true, some people call God different things like Allah, some don't think he is real, and they are all fine" kind of approach.

Apart from that, we are fully behind the school, we go in to read, help with the fete, everything.

But this week, the homework was the usual reading book, sharing book, maths game, sound book, flashcards (sounds like a lot put like that!) and a letter to ask for the child to bring in something from their baptism. DD1 keeps crossing herself randomly, and there seems to be much more praying than I expected. The involved parents - PTA etc - all seem to know each other from church.

AIBU to be a bit, well, alarmed is the wrong word...wobbly...about all this? Does it carry on like this through the school? Should I be reading a book about Catholism to find out what on earth they do? I admit to knowing very little outside of TV.

[SardineQueen]

It's not the end of the world.
It's a good school.
Loads of people I know who went to catholic schools aren't religious now.
Personally I think it is nice for people to have a "default" religion that they can then decide to discard if they want! Rather than not having one and then if they turn out to be a spiritual type they don't have a starting point.
I don't think it will do any harm.
And I'm an athiest who believes that there shouldn't be state funded religious schools.
It will be OK

[JohnStuartMills]

You would have the same problem in a Church of England school as they baptize/christen infants also.

[SardineQueen]

I don't think you can really opt-out of the religious content in a religious school. It runs through everything - assemblies, lessons, what songs are sung in class, everything. If you tried to opt out you'd basically be leaving!

[JohnStuartMills]

I think they should have given latitude from children from backgrounds that don't christen/christen early and said significant item from early on.

[SardineQueen]

Am a bit surprised at the idea she should "remove her child from the school" and give the place to someone else... How is her daughter not having a place in a school going to do anyone any good

[ZZZenAgain]

I do think it could be quite difficult having your dc educated in a faith school when that faith is very strange to you. I can understand you OP and your concerns.

One possibility is that in later years, one of the local schools will have a place available due to dc moving out of the area. In order to find that out, you would need to be in touch with those schools to see about moving your dc if the possibility arose.

I could personally easily imagine sending my dd to a buddhist school because she is attracted to it and I like and respect that faith personally but I don't think I would really see the point in her learning every last little detail of buddhist tradition since our own faith is very different. There are some faiths, and other christian churches to which I would not send my dc to be educated because I genuinely feel they get it very wrong. I would be fine sending her to a mainstream CoE school or an orthodox-run school but other than that, I would prefer a non-religious school so I can see how OP might feel uncomfortable with the school she has.

If there is no other alternative at the moment, you need to give it some thought to achieve an approach you are happy with. I do think clarity helps. When people know where you are, they will accept it IMO. You also mentioned the Catholic parents seem to know each other well from church. Yes, this will probably be the case but that does not mean you cannot make friends. It i s just they come to school already knowing each other and you have to start from scratch - but so do the parents of the other dc within that 60 per cent of non-Catholic dc at the school.

[SardineQueen]

I know some Jewish children who go to a RC school.

It's not ideal but it can be done.

[ZZZenAgain]

yes, I have met Jewish families who send their dc to Catholic schools and met protestant families who send their dc to Jewish schools and it works but it is dependent on a few factors.

If the parents are bringing their dc up at home, at their religious meeting places firmly in their home faith, they are not unsettled by the other religious input their dc get at school. If they are not particularly religious, they impart that attitude at home and are ok that their dc will come out of school without much of a religious attitude either.

The problem is maybe when you are middle-of-the-road sort of aligned to a faith but not really practising it , the dc could be at a bit of a loss in a school where another faith is adhered to and taught and permeates everything.

The Jewish dc at Catholic schools are not attending classes in Catholic religion, the protestant dc at the Jewish schools are attending Jewish religious instruction and Hebrew classes, there was no option to opt out of that in those 2 particular schools.

Anything is possible in the end with a bit of goodwill but really your dc, your choice if you want to do it. It is a shame that parents have to do this against their will really. Doesn't feel right to me.

[ReindeerBollocks]

You can ask for your child to opt out, but there will be certain things which may have to be accepted. For example, our Catholic school doesn't eat meat on Fridays and have told asked parents to abide by this in terms of packed lunches.

You can ask for your daughter not to be Baptised, and to avoid the First Communion, quite a few members of DS's class aren't taking part in the Communion, but they are supportive as a class which is important.

They also do teach about other religions and encourage students to explore them. DS spent a whole term on Judaism and adored it. He was most disappointed to realise that he couldn't just become Jewish overnight!

You don't have to attend Mass either, at the end of the day the school is there to provide your DC with an education, the rest is what you decide to put into it.

[SardineQueen]

ZZen mine was an xpost there not in response to your post directly! I agree with your posts though.

[tothemoonandback]

RIDICULOUS question OP. You know you are being unreasonable. The clue is in the question.

[ZeroMinusZero]

I sympathise with you op. I don't think these schools should even exist and I am terrified that my dd will end up being forced to go to one because all our other choices are full. I could just about cope with c of e but it must be a nightmare with a catholic school. Hopefully the teaching of the rest of the curriculum is ok there.

[GuillotinedMaryLacey]

I do think this thread should be stickied for all of the people who try to con their way into Catholic school. No problem with a non Catholic openly applying for one and getting a place, far from it and I understand it was never the OP's intention for her child to go to this school. But I read so many posts from people determined to lie their way in with absolutely no concept of what is involved at a Catholic school.

FWIW, at my school we had a good few non-Catholics and I don't remember any issue whatsoever. Obviously I don't know what went on at home but they participated in everything and just got on with it. No fuss was made and they weren't excluded from anything. It's how comfortable you feel with it, the child won't actually come to any harm.

Oh and we had sex ed, learnt about other religions etc etc. We were not taught to be homophobic and women priests was a constant debating point. Some of you seem to assume you know what goes on in RC schools without actually ever having had contact with any.

[Oblomov]

Fish on a friday ? [hwink]

[IloveJudgeJudy]

I'm a Catholic and my DC went to a Catholic school. They're at a Catholic secondary school, too. Don't worry, OP, your DC won't get indoctrinated. The priests came in on certain days for either a whole school Mass (service) or a class Mass. Someone up the thread said that the priests are usually called Father Crilly, not Father Ted, but that's no longer the case. They're called Father + first name.

The services (they're not always Masses; they could be a Harvest service) will be arranged by a certain class, usually and that's good because the DC all get involved if they want to and it teaches them presentation skills or art or organisation. In my DC's schools they discuss loads of stuff. They also pray when they first get in class, say a generic prayer before and after lunch and usually one at hometime.

Parents are usually invited to the services. In fact, ime, parents are welcomed into the school. It's lovely to see any DC doing readings, etc.

[spiderpig8]

what preference did you give it on the admissions form
if you don't like it, you have the option to withdraw her from prayers and RE.

[grumplestilskin]

I too hope some of the scammers read this

no prob sending a non catholic child IMO so long as you are comfortable with the ethos and accept that opting out of the main church things wont eliminate it, but you do see a lot of ANTI-catholic people faking in the pre-school and sending their kids because of good OFSTEADs then fighting every pre-lunch prayer and mission project. Bit different for the OP of course as she didn't CHOOSE to send to a faith school which she wasn't comfortable with, just hope the lurkers are taking note!

OFSTEADs are often good at catholic schools BECAUSE they have the extra tool to deal with pastoral problems so in many cases teachers have it a bit easier in terms of teaching environment. That can only be achieved by having the faith at the core of everything they do. Its not at all like a non faith school with a few set prayer sessions. Take out the religion class and communions and it would NOT be the same school/learning environment!

[soandsosmummy]

I haven't got time to read the whole thread but I'm genuinely curious about a point someone has made that it is time for OP to give up the place and let someone else have it. What does she suggest OP should do with her dd?

Perhaps we could run a school place exchange site? eg

Offered - place at outstanding catholic primary in exchange for place at outstanding or very good community primary. Year 3

It would be mayhem

[grumplestilskin]

school place swap site is not at all a bad idea

[LiegeAndLief]

I lived in Malta for 2 years as a child and went to a madly Catholic primary school. This was unavoidable as every primary school (and possibly every person) on Malta was madly Catholic. We did a lot of prayers, masses, stations of the cross in the playground, etc. I was the only child in the school who hadn't had my first communion and as such actually took communion at mass because I didn't know what was going on and it never occurred to any of the teachers that even a child as heathen as me might not have taken their first communion by the age of 10!

One of my teachers stood up in front of the class and slated them for allowing me to come top in the religion exam, when I was a heathen and was going to hell (honestly).

During the Gulf War (first one, I'm fairly ancient) we had to do a full rosary every morning to pray for the war to stop.

I am happy to say that the only effect it has had on me is that I can still say a Hail Mary 20 years later. I can understand your trepidation, but it sounds like an excellent opportunity for a good education, even if you were somewhat forced into it.

[MillyR]

Why do these situations keep coming up? Are there major shortages of primary school places in some areas of the country?

[GrimmaTheNome]

Milly - unfortunately, yes.

[Helltotheno]

We were not taught to be homophobic and women priests was a constant debating point. Some of you seem to assume you know what goes on in RC schools without actually ever having had contact with any.

I don't doubt many Catholic schools handle things in different ways, and really I was referring to the RC as an organisation. The point I was making above was more along the lines of, for me personally, as a woman, the Catholic church does not represent me, as I disagree with so many of its standpoints and I believe it to be a patriarchy. If I can grossly oversimplify, it's like a golf club that has a 'no denims' rule; if you don't like that rule, don't join.

That's just my own opinion and would be reason enough for me not to want to send my children to a RC school. But luckily I have other options.
Each to his/her own.

[MillyR]

Sorry to derail slightly (and go on about something that no doubt everybody else has been complaining about for ages), but are there any plans whatsoever to do something about this shortage of places? From the Government or the LEAs?