In thinking the govts new obesity strategy is

[laptopdancer]

well, a bit pants?

Andrew - you could have tubs around the edge of the playing space - long troughs, could grow beans in them, peas, carrots - probably not marrows, pumpkins or potatoes but it would be easily managed.

Not in my DS's school you couldn't. There are 420 children trying to share the same tiny playground. Actually lining up in front of their class teachers in the morning has become such a problem, they've had to make two lines per class side by side. Add to that 'long troughs' to trip over and it'd be an absolute nightmare.

Parents should be growing or buying vegetables for their children. The school already provides healthy school dinners and 'fruit and veg snack time'.

Oddly enough, they'd probably like to squeeze in a spot of teaching now and then.

I cannot help remembering that last week there was a thread in which a poster wanted schools to have enough car parking - "just like that" - for the parents even if it meant pulling down a few houses. Apparently they should have vegetable gardens too!

I accept that, but some parents don't have any outdoor space at all! Your school might be providing healthy school meals and snacks, Worra, but a lot don't.

And you wouldn't need to take time out of teaching necessarily - it could be a breaktime activity, each class, once a week; or after school if someone could be persuaded to run it.

Anyway - it appears that there are overcrowded schools where it wouldn't be practical - but there are still schools where it would be possible, so why don't they do it?

Massive difference between carparks and veg plots, Andrew

Yes, indeed, you can't grow marrows in a car park, although you can park a car in a veg plot - it will just stop being a veg plot if you do.

The point is that both are unreasonable expectations. And somehow, Thzumbazombiewitch, you know that that is what I meant!

Sportacus is my hero:
(a) cos, phwoooaar
but
(b) cos my kids now eat "sports candy" and ask to have carrots in their lunch boxes

GKC

Not really, Andrew - it might have been what you meant but I disagree that they are both unreasonable in all cases - and the difference I meant was that the veg plots would be generally beneficial to the schools/children, whereas the carpark wouldn't be.
However, as I'm sure we have before (it was you re. the supermarket carpark disabled spaces, wasn't it?), we'll agree to disagree because I have to go to bed now.

Growing veg at school rarely is worth the effort
why?
because the peak cropping season is during the summer holidays

it would be better for every school to have a link up with their local allotment site (in towns) or local market gardener (in the country) and be able to visit a working vegetable garden
AND TAKE STUFF THEY PICK BACK TO SCHOOL AND EAT IT
then the connection of "Fork to Fork" (cheers Monty Don) will be re made
and once children realise that veg and meat come from the open air but processed food comes from smelly factories, the argument will start to be won

OK TalkinPeace2 but you'd have to take them to the smelly factories to and the people there might not be too happy at being the hosts while children were told to avoid their produce. And as worraliberty said if might impact on the teaching breaks which some old-fashioned teachers still seem to see as part of their job.

Andrew
I think letting kids see an MRM plant or the SIZE of the vats that snacks are made in would be fine
my local butcher has just fitted an aging cabinet in his shop - with whole sides of beef hanging in it. FAB

the point is not to TELL kids what is good and bad
but to give them enough experiences of where food actually comes from to let them work it out

I have to say also that If I worked in one of the "smelly factories" I would take a dim view of my kids being taught to disapprove of my work. Just like I would disapprove of a vegetarian teacher spreading anti-meat views if I was a butcher. Schools and teachers must maintain neutrality.

I think weight control has to come from within so taxes are not going to help. People will still buy the crap. What you can do is only have fruit, veg and meat served at school with small amounts of bread and dairy. We used to go into the school kitchens and help with meal prep at least once a term. It was very educational and good fun. We learnt a lot about food in the process. This was stopped after parents complained about their children being 'used' as cheap labour.

For adults, I don't know what to suggest! We should know better. I find my methods of calorie counting and weighing myself daily when overweight and once a week if within a 5lb range of my ideal weight works for me. There are a million and one ways to get in shape and reduce your weight. There is also a mindset of 'you deserve it' when it comes to food. Coffee culture is also not great. Do you know how many calories are in a latte? It is about 200. A cup of tea with milk has around 30 and herbal tea 0. Do you make restaurants put calories next to the items they are serving? Mike Bloomberg has done this in New York but not that many obese people live in New York so it is difficult to see if this works.

True, Manhattan is one of the slimmest places in the US - because everybody walks lots

Talkin It is more than that. Nearly everyone I know here belongs to a gym and goes at least 3 times a week. We don't and have the waistlines to prove it. Most of my female friends don't walk in Manhattan but take taxi's everywhere. Most restaurants in Manhattan also have a section on their menu with meals that are 500 calories or less. This is on the menu because people are demanding it. We don't bother with cakes at birthdays here because no one eats it. We did mini cupcakes last year and I saw most adults were cutting them in half and sharing with their spouse.

They put the calories on the menu in Harvesters and the Wimpy. I find it helpful. I think this works well in chain restaurants where there is a standardised menu, ptobably not so much in independent restaurants where the chef is more creative.

It starts before school and that is where the Children and Surestart centers come into it. There is still a problem of the 'hard to reach' families (these are usually the ones who would benefit the most. This 'problem' can only be removed by good investment in the development workers in the centers, i know of many in the most disadvantaged areas who go out and try to persued parents to come to classes and enrole their children.

There does need to be a big change to what goes into food, as well and what is available to buy, although i have noticed that more small news agents have bananas and apples on sale, this should be encouraged via the tax system, so that they do not loose out by stoking fruit that does not sell.

I have been vegan on occassion, mostly vegaterian and in the past there have been areas that i have been working in that nothing was on sale that i could have ate, i tended to carry a tin of pineapple around, just in case.

Exaspomum said it all really right at the start of the thread. Nanny state, shmany state... most people can't be trusted not to eat trash nor can they be trusted to teach their children the basics of healthy eating. It's costing us money and most importantly, people are dying young and children are being condemned to a life of getting out of breath running for the bus. Ban the hydro fats/ sweets and sweet drinks in schools etc.

Birds fresh fruit pays no tax. How much more "encouragement" can you give newsagents to stock it than that?

In the same way that perished stock can be counted as a loss and therefore deductable overall (cannot think of the correct name, it's been about 20 years since i did business studies).

Small newsagents don't make a lot of profit overall, so should be encouraged to stock healthy foods, not just the ones that bring in income. Some of the sandwiches have as much sugar/fat/calories as pasties.

I think that the reasons as to why we got out of the habit of cooking are complicated, but we need to go back to them, for some that needs education.

Birds why should not all perished stock be tax-deductible?

When I worked in a newsagents we had a chiller that a sandwich company would keep topped up - sale or "return". Obviously there was no real return as everything he took away was at its Use By date.

Now, if I could do the math, had a vehicle and a good contact at the local market for fruit, that would be a business idea!

But I don't think kids (or, sadly, many adults) would be too keen on buying a whole, natural fruit as an impulse buy. It would have to be presented in a more attractive way. I think the amount spent on peeling, chopping and packaging it could probably reap much bigger returns, but it would be a matter of economies of scale in buying the containers to sell it in.

1. Ban all machines at schools which dispense drinks and food.
2. Don't allow children off site during school hours and have a rule about not eating on the way to school in public.
3. Only serve meat veg carb and tap water with school meals
4. Weigh all children each term (I think a lot of schools now do this and they always used to when a child joined a school many years ago).
5. The same amount of sport in state schools as you have in private schools.

Out of school make those over BMI 30 pay a £10 fee at the GP per visit as a token payment, £5 if you are on benefits.

Tax much more heavily all processed foods.

Make sure parents realise how bad they are if they serve their children awful foods. An advert showing a middle class home where children eat properly and a home where chldren are eating fizzy drinks, chocolates, ready meals etc.

I don't agree about showing a middleclass home with children eating properly. I think that those who don't have much money already think that it's only the middle/upper classes that can feed their children properly.

But yes, school vending machines... wtf?! WHY are they allowed?

Xenia

Apart from the fine,

I actually agree with you

But, Buddha, it can be cheap to feed your family well. Baked potatoes, for example with smoked mackerel pate, with winter salad (cabbage and carrot) like we had at lunchtime, £3 for six people. Some government sponsored ads with some recipe ideas would be a good idea.