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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that not all school activities have to be inclusive?

85 replies

manicinsomniac · 09/10/2011 21:33

Obviously not going to be able to go massively into detail here but I was approached by a fairly irate parent recently wanting to know why I had not selected her child for a school activity. The child does not have the skill that is required. At all. The activity is audition only and has always been advertised as such. But apparently I am being exclusive and also favouring my own child (who did get in)

To me this is ridiculous. My daughter is good at this skill so she is involved. However, she is most certainly not in two other activites that she tried out for because she is hopeless at both those things! I know that and wouldn't dream of trying to insist that she gets a place.

Obviously school subjects should be inclusive of all children and I also think there should be a good range of clubs open to all (which there is at our school. I run 3 different ones myself and only one has a selection criteria) But, when it comes to such specific skills, surely we have not gone so PC that we can't select children with an aptitude for one activity and leave them out of another??

AIBU?

OP posts:
laptopdancer · 09/10/2011 21:43

There is a massive difference between a school team, which competes, vs a club.

scaevola · 09/10/2011 21:44

If you are going to have skills/aptitude based activities then you also need strong leadership which is controlling the range of activities to ensure there are enough to go round that everyone is included. If there are only three, all requiring specific talents, then there will be children who miss out on the lot and this is hard on them and not particularly fair.

Perhaps the total balance of what is on offer, and when in the school year these activities are carried out needs more attention.

tallwivghoulies · 09/10/2011 21:45

Erm, define 'fair' ?

Kayano · 09/10/2011 21:45

What if it's a singing club like in Glee?
You have to filter out the crap IMO and not lead kids on when they are
Poor at something...

Maybe that contributes to the terrible singers and performers on x factor who think they are amazing when in reality no one has just had the sense to say

'Errr... No thanks you are not very good'

just read the factor tread Grin

Hulababy · 09/10/2011 21:45

So long as there is a good range of clubs and activities to join and not all are exclusive then I think it is fine, especially once at junior level and definitely at secondary.

I am thinking of sport's teams, music groups where they are doing competitions, etc. Or drama where they are actually taking part in a production which may well be part of a competition too.

I think some level of competition is good and that in order to achieve this we do need to have teams/groups made up of skilled participants. Yes, have activities where all can join in, but the actual team and team practise can be for the skilled group surely?

I don't think the OP is favouring her DD. Her DD got in on her own merit. her DD didn't get in on two other activities though as didn't reach the required standard.

onepieceofcremeegg · 09/10/2011 21:45

See I was wondering about this a bit; my lovely dd has joined the school choir (primary). She can't sing at all (but she is utterly lovely and sweet and good at other things). :) I imagine that at her school it is inclusive.

Agree with the person who said primary should be more inclusive.

As a child/teenager I wanted to play hockey but wasn't much good. However I was allowed to attend practice, and occasionally played a game. From what I recall the teacher handled the situation really well. Once when there was a big match coming up she spoke to me separately and very kindly/diplomatically. Her focus was on the fact that I had improved immensely, and was getting better, but other girls were a little bit ahead of me and they had therefore been picked.

Sometimes it's they way these things are handled imo.

MarginallyNarkyPuffin · 09/10/2011 21:45

Depends on the secondary. Auditions are standard for the ones I know - those who want to be involved might end up with backstage roles helping with lighting, make-up, painting scenery etc. And the choir is audition only.

giyadas · 09/10/2011 21:45

YANBU.
and what Kanyo said. They had the chance to audition, but didn't pass. From what I read from the OP, there are other clubs that they can join which don't need them to pass auditions.

GumballCharm · 09/10/2011 21:47

Kayano UK schools don't have "Glee" clubs. Tis a USA thing. We have choirs. Even then...at my DDs school you all get to join...the joy of singing at lunch break cannot be allowed only for the good ones!

HerRoyalNotness · 09/10/2011 21:47

We need to know the skill involved.

On the one hand, if they don't get to learn the skill, how do they know they will be good or not. On the other, yes, if they don't have the skill, and others do, and all the places are filled with those children, then too bad.

I firmly believe we are all good at something. Some people discover what it is early on, and some of us (like me), spend their whole life searching for what that is.

MillyR · 09/10/2011 21:48

I haven't read the X Factor thread, but surely the reason people think they can sing on the X factor is because the production crew pick out amusingly bad singers, and then tell them they are fantastic, so that they are then shocked when the panel points out they can't sing?

GumballCharm · 09/10/2011 21:48

But we don't know how old the DC are because the OP hasn't been back.

Original poster
manicinsomniac · 09/10/2011 21:48

Oh okay, information (I suppose I was being a tad paranoid there!)

7-13 year olds.

Why am I showing nepotism? I run the activity (it's a show choir) and my daughter is a good singer.

If I ran the swim squad she wouldn't stand a chance in hell of getting in because she can hardly swim!

Working at the place you have your children is a minefield but it's just as important not to discriminate negatively against them as it is not to favour them.

And yes, we compete. Not very often, usually they're just performances. But the standard is high.

There are 3 other choirs in the school. One is auditionable and only for boys, one is auditionable and only for girls and one is for anyone who wants to go. So it's not like I'm depriving children of ever being able to go along somewhere and sing.

OP posts:
nailak · 09/10/2011 21:48

it depends on if the school develops talent in that area, i mean you can have trampolining club, but its not really fair if only the children whose parents can afford out of school trampolining lessons are on the squad, and the school doesnt do enough work to even try to et the rest of the kids up to the same standard.

because you end up with the same kids in the tennis/hockey/trampolining/netball every activity just as the parents can afford extra lessons, and the rest of the kids dont get a look in.

Kayano · 09/10/2011 21:49

But clubs
Like that would be an exception?

Look... Op said se runs three classes/ clubs and only one has any selection criteria.

In that case my opinion is a firm fair enough

DownbytheRiverside · 09/10/2011 21:49

Several questions.
How old are the children? By Y6 they should begin to be able to cope with the idea of not being chosen for something, and that others may have an aptitude that they currently don't possess.
Are there no other ways that a child without a talent for that particular club could have an additional role?
Was the child upset or just the parent?
I disagree that sports teams should be allowed to operate on different principles, if you think that all clubs should be inclusive that should cover sports. Even if that means your school always comes bottom of any area games.

MillyR · 09/10/2011 21:49

Glee clubs were invented and named by the English.

MarginallyNarkyPuffin · 09/10/2011 21:49

It is Glee Grin

Hulababy · 09/10/2011 21:50

I also thing it depends on the size of the school. If it is a large school then it can be a way of reducing numbers.

In DD's school it is very small so it is all inclusive - the choir, the sports teams, orchestra, etc - inclusive in the sense that EVERY one in juniors is in them in some extent or other.

But if you have a 3 or 4 form intake this is much more difficult to achieve.

TheSkiingGardener · 09/10/2011 21:50

If it's an activity which requires auditions, then children have to learn that auditioning can result in rejection. If you enter an audition, failing it is a possibility.

As long as the school offers plenty of activites, some of which are not auditioned then I don't see the problem.

Maryz · 09/10/2011 21:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

eaglewings · 09/10/2011 21:51

Given info in second post OP YANBU

Kayano · 09/10/2011 21:51

SEE!!! IT was a ShOW CHOIR! As in GLee! Like I said!
YANBU they need to be good!!!

I hate all this pandering to people who just have not got the talent. Join the regular choir Wink

DownbytheRiverside · 09/10/2011 21:52

Oh, poor OP.
I knew an angelic child who sang like a constipated donkey, and I've run recorder groups that would have made Noriega weep and give in within an hour. It is difficult when you are running an activity that has some need for a modicum of skill.
Bet the parent wouldn't be prepared to run the club in your place though.

bonkers20 · 09/10/2011 21:52

What you say would be fine for secondary school, but the fact you've been approached by a parent would indicate to me that it's primary school.

If so, then you've talked about THREE selective activities/clubs (your mysterious one and the two your DD didn't get in to). That seems quite a lot for primary school.

If you are talking about a choir being put together to represent the school in a competition then I think it would be fine, but that's not really a club then is it?

Children are picked to represent their school in all sorts of things based on their ability and I think that's appropriate, but clubs should really be for all I think, even if they have minimum requirements (must attend all sessions, learn the music at home or whatever).

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