Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

I admit it, I judged (big time) AIBU?

133 replies

luciadilammermoor · 09/10/2011 14:07

Walking through a shopping centre at lunchtime (endless search for shoes to fit DD1), we heard a loud and paniced screaming coming from somewhere. It crescendo'ed as we passed the hairdressers where 4 adults were pinning a little girl of c.2years old against a woman (her mother?) to enable one of them to pierce her ears.

I admit it, I stopped short, held by the sheer panic and fear that this child was shouting out for us all to hear. I judged, I hoisted big judgy knickers up to about my forehead (in my head): just how the hell could someone do that to their child and why the hell didn't the person do it ask whether this really was a good idea/would they like to rethink?

As I say, I judged. I feel guilty now because everything in my body was telling me to go and say 'really? this is so important? why exactly?' and yet I knew I should not get involved. Not my child etc.

But wtf?

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 09/10/2011 16:04

:-)
Have you SEEN how stupid people look when they take out stretcher earrings?
or
I was in school as chair of finance governors and reps of a company came to quote : I thought I was liberal till the 5 piercings in the young lady's bottom lip and three in her nose UTTERLY put me off what she was saying.

VikingBlood · 09/10/2011 16:08

No child should have to be put through this (or circumcision) against their will. A minimum age should be introduced (8, 10, 12, not sure). DS is almost two and lots of her friends at the crèche have pierced ears, although they seem oblivious to the jewellery now, I still cringe at the thought of what they must have felt at the time they were being pierced.

zukiecat · 09/10/2011 16:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Flojo1979 · 09/10/2011 16:43

Surely one of the main issues is the risk of infection? Most parents know that children under 5 are in the 'vulnerable' category when it comes to immunity.
My 2 yo DD is always covered in food, paint, mud, u name it, so I'd be quite worried how on earth you'd keep their ears clean afterwards and free from infection.

mmmerangue · 09/10/2011 17:07

I had my ears pierced at 10, with a gun, after a couple of years of begging my mum. It hurt so much I almost didn't want them to do the 2nd one! But, the pain does go away & i do like being able to dangle prettiness from ears when not baby-fied.

My MIL suggested if I had a girl that doing it as young as possible was good because they won't remember the pain. Rubbish, in my opinion, I could have a girl who never wants to have her ears done at all forcing it on a young child is insanity. Even at 10 I was fighting back tears and a 2yo doesn't know how to do that! Luckily I had a boy and all discussion went out the window ;)

Original poster
luciadilammermoor · 09/10/2011 17:19

Sorry for delay in answering - we went out! It wasn't Claire's accessories, it was a non-chain hairdressers which advertises piercings.

And for the person who said it was ridiculous to compare it to medical treatment and leukaemia scans then, just to clarify, I quite agree. But what I did compare it to was the extreme of fixed terror displayed by my DD1 in that scenario. As a behaviour, it wasn't unbearable (because I managed to stand it - DH could not and left the room) but it was something which I never ever wanted to experience again... and which I witnessed today, in this stupid scene of ear piercings.

This little girl was fearful, in pain and being held down by her mother (I assume) and four other adults because she was so extremely upset by what was going on. I find that abhorant tbh.

She may not remember it, it may not cause her lasting negative effect, but I'm not sure I'm all that comfortable about that treatment of her being 'OK'. A fine line, I guess, but an issue on which I would be happy to support an age limit being introduced.

OP posts:
thefirstMrsDeVeerie · 09/10/2011 17:30

You didnt experience it again. You projected (or whatever the term is) your feelings on to this situation.

It bought back your awful memories which is distressing but you have no way of knowing that the little girl getting her ears peirced was feeling the same was as your DD when she was going through her dreadful experience.

wantadvice · 09/10/2011 17:30

I always thought 10 for the age to get dd's done but now she's 8 I have rethought it. I cant see how in just 2 years time she will be old enough. I let ds get his done at 15 although he didnt ask earlier. If dd asks then maybe 12.

Original poster
luciadilammermoor · 09/10/2011 17:41

No, let me be clear about this, I saw and heard the same behaviour, body language, volume, tone, wild eyes etc as on a previous occasion. Therefore, I witnessed it. I could not project my previous experience onto this because I saw it happen.

With respect, you were not there and I clarified my use of language to ensure that it was clear that I was describing the observation of behaviour displayed by this very young child.

OP posts:
Blueberties · 09/10/2011 17:45

gosh, I really dislike any piercings except ears
facial piercings I just cannot bear

Cassettetapeandpencil · 09/10/2011 18:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

doesntfitin · 09/10/2011 18:04

chav ,tick
common ,tick
child abuse ,tick

anything new been added to this debate?

NorfolkNCovern · 09/10/2011 18:24

Only thing missing is Godwin's Law Wink

For what it's worth OP YANBU

ToothlessHag · 09/10/2011 20:02

yanbu at all. Why would someone subject their dc to that purely for appearances. I read your op and thought of my own two dc tucked up safe in bed. A parent is meant to protect their children, not plan to hurt them (even for a split second) just so that they can look "pretty".

Well done Alouisg, i have just joined twitter so that i could see what you were saying (and others that have joined you) and i really do feel something should be done. An age limit for ear piercing at least.

btw im eekitsazombie on twitter, in case you got worried about the strangely named person now following you

marzipananimal · 09/10/2011 20:04

YANBU. I have come across a little girl of about 9 months with pierced ears who wears dangly earrings (admittedly very small ones). I don't let my DS go near her for fear he might try and grab them (he's 13 months). Madness IMO.

thefirstMrsDeVeerie · 09/10/2011 20:09

Well we could argue all night about that but having seen lots of very sick children in a great deal of distress and a fair few kids having their ears pierced I dont think the comparison is a good one.

Its like comparing child falling over in the park and getting upset and a child falling off a bloody cliff and having to be rescued.

In my opinion.

This is ear piercing not cancer.

Even though i think its a pointless and unpleasant thing to do to a child I think people get very over the top about it.

Abuse is bandied about willy nilly on MNs. Gets on my nerves.

ginmakesitallok · 09/10/2011 20:10

I think its hideous and don't think that the "it's the cultural norm" argument justifies it at all. Just because a culture of abuse exists doesn't mean it's right. In some cultures female circumcision is "the norm" - doesn't make it right, in others child sexual abuse and early marriage is the norm - doesn't make it right. I agree that there should be an age limit, there is for tattooing so why not for piercing?

madhousewife · 09/10/2011 20:28

This thread has brought up a range of feelings....
First of all, OP I feel that YANBU, that is a horrible thing to witness and I would have felt the same.
But as for most of the rest of this thread...YABU!!!!

I moved to the UK 10 years ago. Where I am from it is quite common for babies to get their ears pierced. Most girls have it done by the age of 5. My parents were super strict and only after 9 years of constant begging was I allowed to have my ears pierced for my 13th birthday. I was the last girl in my class to have it done and it bothered me greatly growing up.

After giving birth to my perfect little angel I decided that when she asked me if she could get her ears pierced I would let her. When that happened at the age of four I let her, DESPITE the general attitude of my peer group.

I didn't discourage her, I didn't encourage her. I explained what would happen and how it might feel. She still wanted it. We went to Claire's, I ensured DD was ok with everything, and she barely blinked, I kid you not.

So I did this knowing that it might be seen as 'chavvy'. I did this despite DH and I being comfortably middle class. I did this despite the fact we will probably be judged because of it.

When I first moved here I met a lawyer who told me she loved London b/c you could wear whatever you want, be whatever you want to be and no one would judge you for it. I really don't see that at all. I see people prescribing to a preconceived notion, donning a uniform - the boden-tunic-legging moms vs the gold hooped, tight ponytail brigade (who have the snotty nosed screaming kids in tow with pierced ears!).

So to put it in perspective I reckon that the middle class mom who threatened and dragged her dd kicking and screaming onto the stage at the last ballet performance I attended is quite similar to the 'chavs' dragging their poor spawn into Claire's.

EmLH · 09/10/2011 20:34

I think it IS abuse. Absolutely. I would seriously worry what sort of mother would do such a thing. Makes me feel sick just thinking about it. Sooooooo wrong it's almost unbelievable. Some people on this earth are warped!

A petition is a great idea, I think most people would be in favour of an age limit in this country. And piercing a toddler is even worse than piercing a baby IMO as they then have an understanding of what's happening, just not why!

NiecieTheTerminator · 09/10/2011 20:43

I had mine done for my 11th birthday. They froze my ear first with spray and it didn't hurt a bit. Do they not use that any more? I flinched only on the second one because the noise of the gun was quite loud and after the surprise of the first one the anticpation of the second made me tense up slightly.

That said I wouldn't do any child who didn't actually want it done and who couldn't understand what it was all about - the process and the implications of wearing earrings. My mother didn't let me have it done until I was able to deal with the aftercare of cleaning a new piercing myself which is fair enough. I also had to be able to put them in myself because they had to be removed for PE. It is quite fiddly for young children.

I can imagine it was a horrible thing to watch though. Poor child. Sad

TalkinPeace2 · 09/10/2011 20:47

madhousewife
I fully accept that in many places children have their ears pierced young
but I do not accept that a child should ever be forced, screaming, to undergo a cosmetic procedure.
Your DD wanted hers done. She and you agreed about it. It was her decision. Fine.

When I was a kid only gypsy kids had their ears peirced young that I saw
girls at my school used needles and stolen lab alcohol from the age of about 13
boys only did it if they were gay

times have changed
BUT if a kid is screaming, what is the hassle in waiting a year?

naturalbaby · 09/10/2011 20:54

At the risk of being flamed to Timbuktu and back...
I had mine done at 3yrs old, my sister was 2. Different country. I remember it very clearly. there was no screaming, shouting, pain or terror. We were aware of what was going on and what was going to happen and I remember it happening but I don't remember any pain. I remember watching my sister have it done and neither of us were scared or crying.

I think there might be something in what Rebel says. They say the same about baby boys being circumcised don't they? (not that I agree with it in any way at all) I've been told (by doctors sticking needles in my baby) they cry more about being held down by strangers than the pain.

I'm not saying it doesn't hurt, just that their experience of pain and the way they deal with it is very different from an adult.

TalkinPeace2 · 09/10/2011 20:59

natural
rebel is incorrect - babies can and do feel pain - the research is unequivocal
BUT
a child in a calm and supporting environment will feel a lot less FEAR and therefore less pain
you were not scared - neither was madhousewifes DD - therefore you felt and remember little pain

the child in the OP was terrified
those adults should not have proceeded, nor should the people in the shop

Henrythehappyhelicopter · 09/10/2011 21:00

Was in the jewellers at the weekend and a toddler had her ears pierced.

Both were done at the same time by two different people.

The little girl looked surprised but no other reaction.

I thought it was always done like that.

AuntieMaggie · 09/10/2011 21:02

The people I know who have got their DCs ears pierced for cultural reasons have gone to places where they do both at the same time and they have said that their DCs cried for about 2 seconds. As far as I'm concerned its their business if they want to pierce their childs ears and talking to them about their cultural reasons I can understand why they would have them done.

Just interesting - how would you judge the difference between someone who has done it for cultural reasons and 'chavy'???