To wonder why so many otherwise intelligent people are so against modern medicine?

[toptramp]

I do have time for some complimentary medicine but i knoe some people who would rather do homeothapy than vaccines etc. Am i right in thinking that modern medicine is fab generally?

Well, the truth is: yes, there are some really wrong things about the pharmaceutical industry. Their patenting policies do prevent people in developing countries from getting access to affordable treatments. They do market aggressively to doctors and, yes, they have tried - successfully at times - to basically invent conditions to improve sales.

BUT:

Arguing that you don't believe in evidence based medicine because Big Pharma is bad is akin to claiming a car won't take you from A to B because oil companies are evil.

Logic just doesn't work that way.

evidence based medicine is great - but not all medical practice follows it.

it is not unreasonable to distrust on that basis.

surely all medicines came from something natural initially - that's why people think there is something in homeopathy.

its really not as simple as right or wrong.

Many homeopathic remedies formed the basis for what you would call "modern" medicine, and does work for some ailments..

It would be ignorant to dismiss it all as useless, as it would be equally ignorant to say that modern medicine is no good too.

I think it helps to take a balanced view and each method on its own merit.

Partly because there are some very clever people who are very good at psychology making a lot of money out of persuading people that medicine is bad and magic is good.

Many homeopathic remedies formed the basis for what you would call "modern" medicine

squeakytoy it sounds as if you have no idea what homeopathy is and are confusing it with herbal remedies.

Complementary, not complimentary.

There is a huge amount of damage done by conventional medicine (- it's called iatrogenesis), e.g., HRT has been associated with some cancers and cardiovascular events/disease (although this diminishes over time after you stop taking it), co-proxamol was associated with a fifth of all drug-related suicides (and subsequently banned), and the FDA estimated that nearly 30,000 deaths in the US were associated with Vioxx.

Modern medicine is amazing in lots of ways and I would never want us to be without it, but it's not without its problems. And I guess it doesn't have to be an either/or thing, hence complementary.

"Many homeopathic remedies formed the basis for what you would call "modern" medicine,"

NO IT DIDN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Maybe we're against it because we're intelligent.

Homeopathy:
1 take a tiny bit of something that causes the same symptoms you are suffering from
2 dilute this in lots of water and hit it rhythmically on a horsehair stuffed leather saddle ("succussion")
3 take a tiny bit of this mixture, dilute and repeat
4 do this until there is not a single molecule of the original thing left

There's nothing in it, and the thing that would have been in it wouldn't have cured your problems anyway.

It is not the basis for anything.

What seeker just said.

Look here for a lovely bit of maths that explains just how diluted homeopathic remedies actually are.

In a nutshell: it really doesn't work, because it CANNOT work.

Margerykemp, yeah, that's what my dad says too.

He also intelligently believes the number of primes is finite - because some guy who was such a genius that he was too smart for school and dropped out "proved" it. And no academic mathematician is intelligent enough to understand the proof.

many herbal remedies have been proved to work homeopathic ones have not

aspirin from willow bark, digitalis from foxgloves, morphine from opium poppies etc, garlic and ginger aloe vera et al are known to have health benefits memory of a millionth of a drop of arnica in special water .... no I'm afraid not proven, arnica in real quanities in cream base for bruises yes it does work

unfortunately it is very difficult as so many people give more weight to 3 or 4 ancedotes than a study of 2000 people, the media are particularily unhelpful in this way, they never explain that double the risk is double what the risk was to start with rather than the scary thought that there is a 1 in 2 chance of it happenning

if the risk of being struck by lightning doubled it would be an irrelevance but it would not be reported as such but as a major new side effect tragedy about to strike the world!

Good grief, yes!

All the complimentary "medicine" should be flushed down the loo.

What rubbish people believe!

apologies ... I was only half reading while dealing with something else and for some reason was thinking of herbal medicine....

I think it is because people like to feel in control - and modern medicine only knows a tiiiny fraction of what it really needs to know to keep us healthy, so people look elsewhere until they find something that has all the answers to fit their problem. People like having answers, and if you go the evidence-based route it reveals how few we have.

There is also the issue that as Big Pharma is a business, research tends to pushed towards areas that make money and many areas are being neglected. For example, things that fall under "women's issues" tend to be greatly under funded and the source rarely researched so at this time they throw hormonal birth control or HRT at the symptoms without doing anything - and that doesn't always work. There is also the tendency for them to reinvent the wheel to keep renewing patents. If the current remedy doesn't work for an individual or your condition is under researched, you're out of luck and alternative medicines may be the only option.

Also, it depends on how complementary medicines are defined. There is a grey area - for example physiotherapy is accepted for treating injuries (and a quickly growing field), but using physiotherapy to prevent illness, to treat non-injury related conditions, or to use it for improving general well-being and people call quackery. Nutrition has a whole boat-load of quacks, but it can be used in evidence-based medicine.

A lot of health conditions can best be dealt with by leaving them alone. Mild infections, bruises, aches, colds, most viral conditions get better by themselves, etc. A lot of time medical interventions can make health problems worse, OR, can just be delaying the inevitable and providing false hope, or make the remaining lifespan quite unpleasant.

We have too much faith in medical interventions and not enough reservations about the side effects / unintended consequences / cascade of unwanted interventions, that any medical action can lead to.

I am all for most modern medicine, btw, I just also think it's right to view it skeptically, to see its limits and drawbacks, too.

Actually the theory behind homeopathy did lead to research which in turn led to some of today's medicine. However the resultant medication really bears no resemblance to the original homeopathy. FWIW I don't like nor do I trust traditional homeopathy. ie the idea that small amounts (small as in 62.5 microgram of digoxin not effectively zero) can have an effect and that a substance that can cause a symptom may help treat the same problem again I use digoxin as an example as in a healthy person it could potentially cause heart failure yet is used to treat those with heart conditions.

I hate the term alternative therapy as it suggests to my mind that that it should be used to the exclusion of modern medicine which IMO is dangerous. Complementary therapy is the term I prefer as some of it has some use. eg accupuncture is now used in some cases on the NHS, I believe that aromatherapy is great for relaxation and for sore muscles which isn't a bad thing. Chiropracty is great for many musclo-skeletal injuries and there is growing evidence for this.

IME there is a widespread school of thought that if it is natural it must be safe. Which is obviously completely wrong. Opium, digitalis and most viruses and bacteria are completely natural and cannot be considered 100% safe.

It is good to question medical advice but not in the sense of you are a Dr so must be wrong. More in the sense of doing your own research and finding out the background to the advice you have been given and if you find a discrepancy or that it is nt the most up to date advice then asking for an explanation.

Doesn't have to be so clear cut.I love modern medicine saved my life and two of my children#s life. But it has it short comings. In some cases the side effects of pharmacetacols are so harsh that they make life worse. It also hasn't found the answer (yet) to many chronic health conditions and some alternative medicine can step in and help so much. Acupuncture got rid of my PMT and osteopathy my knee and back pain instead of endless painkillers.

(homeopathy though is a pile of shit!)

I trust modern medicine but I don't trust doctors.

Modern medicine kept my husband alive and keeps my son generally well.

Except I have an awful lot of knowledge on my sons condition and have come across many terrible/inexperienced doctors Most doctors initially talk to patients/parents like they are stupid and will do as they say, I have witnessed this many a time, then I will go indepth about my sons condition, and they then get the consultant in charge of his condition. I have doctors I trust and always go to them as they are quite possibly some of the best people in the world.

I do have time for SOME complimentary therapies BUT I hate the way that many practitioners slag of modern medicine as a way of plugging the latest quack theory.

Don't get me started on natural childbirth. I was bloody thrilled to have my c-section given that the acupuncture etc didn't work. It saved my life.

I do speak as someone who used to be hoodwinked by alternative therapies such as aromatherapy, reiki etc. I am now embarassed by my naivity. I wouldn't rule out herbs and good diet etc. I do think that prevention is better than cure but sometimes we don't have that option.

Alternative medicine is attractive because it's all more touchy feely, even though it's usually no better than placebos. Modern medicine tends to exist in " health factory" environments (I think that's whist drive the whole NCT movement - which is alternative medicine shored up by modern technology IMO)

(I thought I'd add that as we haven't had this month's NCT thread yet : o )