to think this is unspeakably rude?

[Squitten]

I finally have something that has wound me up so much that I must defer it to the hallowed MN jury!

We invited BIL & SIL to lunch this weekend. DH rang BIL to confirm details and, as the conversation was winding up, BIL suddenly slipped in "Oh, you do know X (SIL's sister) is coming." SIL's sister lives near us and they have seemingly invited her over too without so much as asking us if it's ok and had the audacity to TELL us that was what was happening. DH's reaction was to splutter "Oh, er, ok.." or something equally useless, for which I am also quite mad at him.

In order to avoid drip-feeding, a little background: I don't think SIL particularly likes us. She always seems to find some way to avoid spending time with DH's family and has been quite blatent about it before now and it has caused rows with MIL, e.g. going on a holiday that MIL has paid for and then spending the whole time working. BIL is totally spineless and never ever stands up to her but will not tolerate any criticisms. We did invite her sister to DS2's baptism a few months back and they spent the whole party huddled together in a corner and didn't speak to anyone.

Me and DH both agree that SIL has invited her because she doesn't particularly want to be here at all but I think it is outrageous to invite other people to someone else's house and then TELL them how it's going to be rather than having the curtesy to ask the hosts first. As I said, are we expected to cater for her too? Before today, we hadn't even agreed the day yet so how did they know to invite her anyway? DH says this kind of casual invites thing is how their social group operates so it's normal for them.

I'm spitting nails about it and am minded to cancel the whole bloody thing but I had a death in the family 2 days ago and so accept I might be being somewhat over-emotional about the whole thing.

So, MN jury - utterly rude or acceptable social norm?? And what would you do about it?

Condolences for your loss- and you're not being over-emotional, your SIL/BIL are being rude. In the circumstances I think many people would say something along the lines of you having had a difficult week and shouldn't go to a lot of trouble, so they'll do lunch for you, or go out for a pub meal. It's pretty poor to actually generate more work and stress for someone that's already grieving by making demands about who they invite to their house.

I think Laquitar has a good idea- invite a few friends of yours who are good company , make it a really simple help-yourself type lunch. This means that if your SIL has engineered things specifically to make you feel awkward and outnumbered, you have allies around you.

Then next time make it crystal clear that the invitation extends only to SIL & BIL, not any randoms they happen to think ought to come. Or just never invite them again.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that this wouldn't bother me at all, weekend lunches for me are a pretty informal affair, so one more would not be a problem.

Sounds like there have been other problems with your SIL though that are heightening the tension.

Going out would be equally rude and just cause more problems in the long term.

It is impossible to tell from your posts whether you actually like SIL? It is entirely possible that she is shy or feels that you don't like her. If this is so would you like to try and get to know here and be friends? It would surely make your life easier.

The way things stand now you are a bit put out about the circumstances and this will almost certainly be glaringly obvious at lunch which will just start a vicious cycle of ill feeling.

Best thing to do would be to invite a couple of your most gregarious fun loving friends over too, get another case couple of bottles of wine in and have a lovely lunch. If after it's over SIL hasn't warmed up a bit then cut your losses, no need to make an issue of it but just don't make a huge effort. Weekend lunches are not supposed to be chores.

I'd have preferred a 'would you mind if', but no I don't think it's rude as such.

Thanks all.

I've decided just to let it go and not let it get to me. I'm not convinced it's down to SIL being afraid of me necessarily but I think as I'm trying to deal with the death, etc, I'm likely not in the best mind to judge anyway.

Thanks again - this has been a good sounding board!

It was rude, as they should have asked and not told you. By and large my reaction would be like your DH but if I didn't like the person I'd put my ffoot down. What DH would probably do is tease them a bit while they are here, just to make SIL a bit uncomfortable.

Perhaps your BIL forces her into accepting invites to family gatherings. She may not be able to really fit them in ie the working when onm holiday.

I have the same problem with my DP's family, i now stand up more for myself, i don't get enough time off work to spend it with people that i don't have anything in common with and not see the people who i would like to.

My DP's family think they they include me by inviting me, but then barely speak to me when i am there, you may not realise it but it might not be her that is totaly at fault. Your DH should have spoken to his brother about this, long ago.

Glad you have made peace with it all, OP.

For what it's worth, I think you have added 2 and 2 and made 5.

ie It was BIL who had the conversation with your DH about the extra guest - your DH said 'that's the way their social circle works' so it is not unfeasible that the two blokes were just rather cack-handed in their execution/reception of the 'invite'.

Nothing to do with SIL at all, who may well be mortified if she knew that's how BIL had worded the 'ask'.

However, because SIL has form on not being that 'into' your family (cf MIL's holiday and, more especially not being that bothered about your kids) you have more of an issue with her in general.

It's a shame when relatives aren't actually that bothered about you or your kids, but you sound like you are sucking it up and being the bigger person.

OP can you invite your brother too?

How was your weekend squitten?

Agree you don't invite someone to someone else's house.
When I had a young baby, a friend of mine was due to come over and see her. DH just happened to overhear her in the pub inviting one of HER friends who I hardly knew.
DH was like... er... no.

I don't understand families who are so formal with each other. I would be completely fine with my sister or brother showing up at my house with absolutely anybody they wanted to bring. In fact, I might be hurt if they thought they needed to ask, because it would show they didn't feel completely comfortable in my house.

Dropping round with a mate or three is one thing. My dad's family did that a lot and it was quite jolly. Bringing one extra to a formal meal is another. Quite apart from anything else there's the catering; it's all very well for casual visitors to take pot luck but when you've laid on something a bit posh it is surely not that easy to just eke it out by 25% without everyone else going a bit short? Anyway suppose they've only got a table big enough for four? (Or six if counting the DCs.) Some of us have to plan, and even budget, before entertaining. Not budget teabags and digestives maybe, but proper meal stuff, yes. Times change, and not everyone these days has a mediaeval dining hall with a pen of fattened hogs in the motte in case a neighbour decides to drop in with his retinue on his way to Canterbury. So you don't just assume your hosts can expand infinitely; you ask.