to think this is unspeakably rude?

[Squitten]

I finally have something that has wound me up so much that I must defer it to the hallowed MN jury!

We invited BIL & SIL to lunch this weekend. DH rang BIL to confirm details and, as the conversation was winding up, BIL suddenly slipped in "Oh, you do know X (SIL's sister) is coming." SIL's sister lives near us and they have seemingly invited her over too without so much as asking us if it's ok and had the audacity to TELL us that was what was happening. DH's reaction was to splutter "Oh, er, ok.." or something equally useless, for which I am also quite mad at him.

In order to avoid drip-feeding, a little background: I don't think SIL particularly likes us. She always seems to find some way to avoid spending time with DH's family and has been quite blatent about it before now and it has caused rows with MIL, e.g. going on a holiday that MIL has paid for and then spending the whole time working. BIL is totally spineless and never ever stands up to her but will not tolerate any criticisms. We did invite her sister to DS2's baptism a few months back and they spent the whole party huddled together in a corner and didn't speak to anyone.

Me and DH both agree that SIL has invited her because she doesn't particularly want to be here at all but I think it is outrageous to invite other people to someone else's house and then TELL them how it's going to be rather than having the curtesy to ask the hosts first. As I said, are we expected to cater for her too? Before today, we hadn't even agreed the day yet so how did they know to invite her anyway? DH says this kind of casual invites thing is how their social group operates so it's normal for them.

I'm spitting nails about it and am minded to cancel the whole bloody thing but I had a death in the family 2 days ago and so accept I might be being somewhat over-emotional about the whole thing.

So, MN jury - utterly rude or acceptable social norm?? And what would you do about it?

Great idea oops

I'm fairly laid back about this sort of thing - we have a fairly open door policy in our house and amongst our social circle it wouldn't be unheard of for lunches etc to be mentioned and invites extended for others to come along although I would expect to be asked (although only in a "thought I might invite X along to, is that ok?" casual sort of way)

I certainly wouldn't be angry about it (unless of course I disliked the person who had done the inviting - and it is that that seems to be the issue here)

But I do realise that this is one of those issues that really divides people: You are either the sort of person who loves a crowded dinner table, people popping by unanounced, impromptu drinks etc or you're not and I have learnt from MN that no amount of persuasion will make one understand the other

MIL did this once to me, the extra concerned being an obnoxious woman, the sort who turns every conversation into a monologue. (My poor FIL had to go out for a walk when she visited; but this incident was after he died).

"X is coming too".

"No she isn't. Not here. DW and I issue the invitations for here and we don't do sub-invitations".

MIL backed off and never did it again.

I think it's really rude to bring an extra person along without asking (especially to an event where food is being provided).

I do think however that you need to accept that your SIL doesn't really want to spend time with you. I'm sure that hurts, but unfortunately that's what happens sometimes when people get married - it is horrible when it happens with a sibling you are close to though. It sounds like they don't have any kids and maybe the idea of spending time with yours isn't particularly appealing to her so she's making sure she has adult company with her. Is there any way you can have your BIL over by himself more often?

Blimey Where is the love?

I don't think it is unspeakably rude but I am used to people dropping in.
I often invite a couple of friends round for supper and drinks and they will turn up with a couple of friends. What started off as an invite for four ends up as 12 coming round.
No problem. THis is how we make new friends. (and friends are ok when it happens back to them)

I wouldn't be spitting nails. That is way to stressful.
If I was you I would be trying to get to know SIL's sister better. It may make a difference at future social occasions when she has got to know you better.

Surely it is not that big a deal setting out one extra place.

It wouldn't bother me at all. One of my SILs always turns up with a few stragglers because she is very sociable. I want my Sils to feel comfortable in my home. My MIL almost always brings her best friend over but they always bring food too.

How rude!

That said... I once took my sister along to a friends house for dinner, however I was only in my hometown for a few days, I did ask firend (very good friend) and she does also know and like sister and realised there was no other way of me having time to see everyone :-(

Unspeakably rude, absolutely. A total lack of manners, awareness and apreciation of others. I can never believe that some people think so much of themselves as to invite their own guests to other people's houses. Disgraceful behaviour.

Also quite laid back about this, my SIL's sister is included in loads of family gatherings. And one extra for lunch wouldn't bother me massively.

However I would expect to be asked if it was OK if she came not told she is coming. On the whole YANBU just because of how it has been presented to you.

I think it is rude.
But I wonder, is it possible that your sil feels that you don't like her?
The need to bring a friend may just be casual rudeness but it might be she feels like an outsider and wants a support. You say 'they stood in the corner' or something. Do you think she might feel excluded? Is she nervous or shy?

My sons girlfriend seemed rude initially until I realised that in spite of being beautiful and intelligent and therefore likely to be being superior or distant, she was just shy.

It was the BIL who told you that she was coming, not the SIL. So you should be mad at him, not her. It is quite possible that she asked him to ask if it was OK.

Do you think maybe she is a wee bit intimidated by you?

I think I'd cancel if I were you. You've clearly had a lot on your plate the last couple of days and this is an irritation you don't want or need. If they have no problem in inviting extras along (thus making it clear that SIL doesn't particularly want to spend time with you) then you should have no problem with changing your mind (thus making it clear that you don't particularly fancy extras coming along uninvited). Cancel. Sorry, changed our minds. If BIL queries, your DH could say that you've just had a bereavement, you had in mind a small family gathering but you're not really up for a general get together. That will get your point across.

However, it does sound as if your SIL just isnt into becoming mates- thats up to her and isnt unreasonable. Neither is BIL unreasonable for 'never pulling her up on things and not taking criticism of her' - if that translates as not allowing her inlaws to decide what's acceptable behaviour and sticking up for her when they get narked with her. It sounds like you should just live and let live with these two- you're never going to be close.

Sorry for your loss.

make up a D&V bug around 3pm the day before and cancel. my bet is she is bringing her sister as a defence?

fuck that! cancel

That's not a great idea Oops. It's disgusting!

What is the harm in someone else coming round. Why is everyone so god damm precious? Like I said before what is the problem about plating up another meal.

After all a stranger is a friend we haven't met yet.

I did ask before 'where is the love?' but I should have known! It's MN where everone is so unbelievable angry and spits nails every minute!

Blimey my SIL was invited to come over from New Zealand and the day before she lets us know that she has left her husband a year before (and decided not to tell us!) and is bringing her boyfriend. They stayed for 2 months! There was a bit more shuffling to do for that one than get an extra seat and buy another bottle of wine!
Anyway he is my BIL now and has said how he appreciates how we made him welcome in difficult circumstances!

Ok, so have slept on it and calmed down somewhat.

I guess what some of you have said is probably true in that there is a difference of expectation to start with - I think DH might be right (don't tell him!) when he says it would be normal to do this in their circles (and obviously in other people's too) but not in ours. I also wonder if by us inviting SIL's sister to DC2's baptism, they are now taking this to mean that they can bring her along whenever.

I also think you are right in that we are just never going to get along really and that's how it will be and the sooner we stop trying the better for all of us. It makes me very sad because I still have a close relationship with my aunts and uncles (something I am very grateful for at this time!) and I would like that for my DC but I guess I just have to accept it's not going to happen on their side of the family :( Fingers crossed my brother is better that way.

Me and DH talked about it some more and whilst he agrees with me that it's not ok that they have done this, they don't do direct confrontation so phoning them back and uninviting the sister won't be happening, and I think that's too aggressive anyway. So options are:

1. Cancel the whole thing, don't do anything to address it and just stop inviting them over and stick to seeing them at MIL's once or twice a year and if they show up for DC's events, etc (we never ever get invited to their house)

2. Go ahead with the day as it stands and at another date DH will talk to BIL one on one and tell him we don't want them inviting people to our home without asking first

I feel on the one hand like it's really not worth the hassle and just want to cancel the whole lot or just let it ride and do nothing to cause more aggro. On the other hand, I feel like if we don't address it, they'll take this as carte blanche to invite SIL's sister to everything we do in the future, e.g. DC2's birthday in the winter. It sounds petty but it just sticks in my throat that we seemingly have no say over who is invited to our home!

The whole thing is just stupid really. Meh.

I'd also like to say that it's very helpful to hear different opinions. My immediate response is to be all uppity about it so it's good to get more rational responses from the outside viewpoint

Whilst I like the idea that strangers are friends we haven't met yet, I still think it is unspeakably rude to TELL you hosts that you will be bringing another guest.

We've had friends over before where they have asked if they could bring friends over and we said yes not a problem, along the lines of the more the merrier, but that didn't happen in this case, the op was told the sil sister was coming. Very very rude.

It might be the norm in some families, but surely you must realise it isn't in all so you check first, basic manners I would have thought.

Asking, maybe, telling is v rude.

There is another option : to invite your best friend too or another couple, then the dynamics change again. And you will have less time for SIL.

Laquitar I like that suggestion and you have actually given me a brain wave there...

The funeral has been arranged for next week and I have realised that I have nothing to wear at all. I could just arrange to take myself out shopping with my friends for the day and leave DH to deal with his family. If he wants to cancel the whole thing, he can then.

Or is that just being equally rude? I very much doubt BIL & SIL will care whether I'm there or not....

Hm i'm not sure, maybe that's too much. Maybe something between i.e. go out in the morning and return home with your friend and your shopping after they have arrived (because you are busy person with important things to do and Sil is not your priority )

I think you (as in both of you) have issued an invite so you either need to stick by it now or cancel tbh. You have a good reason for cancelling and under the circumstances it might just be best all round - you can rethink future plans/expectations when you haven't so much on your mind. I would find being invited somewhere for lunch then the hostess going shopping instead not just rude but very strange.

What I am most interested in is this: why have you invited them to lunch at all if you get the feeling SIL doesn't like you? These events are supposed to be fun - why put yourselves through it?

(and yes, of course it is rude for an invitee to invite a third party to someone else's event)

I think that it is rude of them. It's one thing asking if you could bring someone to a party, but this is lunch for just two couples.
I think that i would just act graciously on the day but at the same time i would be plotting my revenge.